The Tesla Thread

[Fuzz]

Any day now fleets of Tesla robotaxi's will be roaming the streets without drivers, making you money! Autopilot is an INVESTMENT!



Orrrr Musk is full of feces but great at selling snake oil.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by photon

Every car with Autopilot recalled:



https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/12...afe-autopilot/

Nice thing about over the air software updates is software fixes are easy and don't need a dealership visit.

Everytime there's a major Tesla recall everyone in my family sends me a bunch of texts in the vein of "do you regret buying an EV yet?". It's absurd because all of these are actually feature improvements/bug fixes and a small software patch.

I'm on the advanced update path and I think I've gotten all these updates already several weeks ago and its really just more alerting or notifications for the driver to pay attention if they turn on the autopilot.

[Wormius]

Is the autopilot a paid feature? Would that be refunded?

[Fuzz]

Basic "autopilot" is included, which is lane keeping and traffic aware cruise control(TACC), features which many modern vehicles have, but none audacious enough to call autopilot.


Then there is "Enhanced Autopilot" (EAP) which you pay for, and adds Navigate on Autopilot(freeways) and a bunch of stuff that doesn't work and hasn't without ultrasonic sensors, for some time now. Things like Smart Summon, autopark...


Beyond that is Full Self Driving FSD which doesn't exist yet, but buying it gets you access to FSDb, the beta version that makes everyday drivers(yes, those ones too!) the trainers and safety takeover drivers for an incomplete system prone to errors. All for the privilege of handing over $12k USD.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Basic "autopilot" is included, which is lane keeping and traffic aware cruise control(TACC), features which many modern vehicles have, but none audacious enough to call autopilot.


Then there is "Enhanced Autopilot" (EAP) which you pay for, and adds Navigate on Autopilot(freeways) and a bunch of stuff that doesn't work and hasn't without ultrasonic sensors, for some time now. Things like Smart Summon, autopark...


Beyond that is Full Self Driving FSD which doesn't exist yet, but buying it gets you access to FSDb, the beta version that makes everyday drivers(yes, those ones too!) the trainers and safety takeover drivers for an incomplete system prone to errors. All for the privilege of handing over $12k USD.

There's apparently an update coming in the Christmas update that is enabling high fidelity park assist from 3D mapping the environment from the cameras.



Tesla usually does a large feature update every Christmas with a lot of extra toys and bells and whistles.

https://twitter.com/Tesla/status/173...242194/photo/4

[Fuzz]

Uhmm hmm...I'll believe it works when I see a video of it!

[Erick Estrada]

I don't know how a software update can be considered satisfactory when it's evident that vision-only does not work. It's a hardware issue on the cars where they removed radar and ultrasonic sensors. There's no amount of programming that can make up for the fact that a camera only isn't competent or safe enough for an autopilot system.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't know how a software update can be considered satisfactory when it's evident that vision-only does not work. It's a hardware issue on the cars where they removed radar and ultrasonic sensors. There's no amount of programming that can make up for the fact that a camera only isn't competent or safe enough for an autopilot system.

FSD is a fun toy in the US where you can get it on monthly subscription but buying it outright. ($16K CAD right now, down from $19.5K) is something only someone insane would do.

The vision only cars are crippled. The next generations are getting radars put back in because of all this regulatory and public backlash.

The basic autopilot however, is probably my favorite feature. My friend's Lexus also has traffic aware cruise control and lane keeping but its nowhere near as good. My commute to work was all autopilot today. Whenever I need to go to Banff or anywhere else, autopilot is also such a luxury.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

FSD is a fun toy in the US where you can get it on monthly subscription but buying it outright. ($16K CAD right now, down from $19.5K) is something only someone insane would do.

The vision only cars are crippled. The next generations are getting radars put back in because of all this regulatory and public backlash.

The basic autopilot however, is probably my favorite feature. My friend's Lexus also has traffic aware cruise control and lane keeping but its nowhere near as good. My commute to work was all autopilot today. Whenever I need to go to Banff or anywhere else, autopilot is also such a luxury.

Have you done any long trips with autopilot yet?

I personally don't "need" to upgrade to a car with cruise control with lane awareness, ACC and automatic adjustment of speed to the listed speed limit. But it would be nice to have so that I don't feel as tired after a long 6+ hour drive. I don't need an EV for this feature. I have a friend who drives back and forth between the Maritimes and Calgary a few times a year and have claimed these features in their ICE vehicles are the only reason why they consider it. I knew others that drove round trips from Calgary to Winnipeg regularly without this feature.

40+ hours one way (round trip) several times a year is insane. But with those features in a vehicle, I'd love to try.

Tossing the kids in the car around midnight and then waking up in Kelowna/Vancouver with my wife and I not worrying as much being awake for most of that trip to keep the car in check would be a pretty awesome luxury.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

Have you done any long trips with autopilot yet?

I personally don't "need" to upgrade to a car with cruise control with lane awareness, ACC and automatic adjustment of speed to the listed speed limit. But it would be nice to have so that I don't feel as tired after a long 6+ hour drive. I don't need an EV for this feature. I have a friend who drives back and forth between the Maritimes and Calgary a few times a year and have claimed these features in their ICE vehicles are the only reason why they consider it. I knew others that drove round trips from Calgary to Winnipeg regularly without this feature.

40+ hours one way (round trip) several times a year is insane. But with those features in a vehicle, I'd love to try.

Tossing the kids in the car around midnight and then waking up in Kelowna/Vancouver with my wife and I not worrying as much being awake for most of that trip to keep the car in check would be a pretty awesome luxury.

But that's how you end up dead. That's the danger of these 95% systems. A false sense of ability lulls you into complacency, which is exactly why this recall happened in the first place.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

Have you done any long trips with autopilot yet?

I personally don't "need" to upgrade to a car with cruise control with lane awareness, ACC and automatic adjustment of speed to the listed speed limit. But it would be nice to have so that I don't feel as tired after a long 6+ hour drive. I don't need an EV for this feature. I have a friend who drives back and forth between the Maritimes and Calgary a few times a year and have claimed these features in their ICE vehicles are the only reason why they consider it. I knew others that drove round trips from Calgary to Winnipeg regularly without this feature.

40+ hours one way (round trip) several times a year is insane. But with those features in a vehicle, I'd love to try.

Tossing the kids in the car around midnight and then waking up in Kelowna/Vancouver with my wife and I not worrying as much being awake for most of that trip to keep the car in check would be a pretty awesome luxury.

I have a Genesis now and it has a great lane centering, radar cruise and highway drive assist. I just did 9 hours to an area north of Prince Albert, Saskatchewan a couple weeks ago and it's such a game changer compared to just regular old lane keep (or nothing) and standard non-radar cruise control. It really takes so much pressure off and lets you relax a ton more than driving in a car without it.

Also traffic jams and rush hour are big nothings to me now. Just press a button and my car drives me home, more or less.

Mine can adjust the speed to match signs (or you can set it to let you go 5 or 10 over), but I don't use that. I just keep the hammer down and hope my radar detector does the rest. So far so good on that.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

But that's how you end up dead. That's the danger of these 95% systems. A false sense of ability lulls you into complacency, which is exactly why this recall happened in the first place.

That's if you put all your reliance on the technology. Fair comment for the average individual, but I personally don't do that. I still turn around and look out the back even with a back up camera.

What would be nice would be having the ability to quickly turn that on and turn to drink coffee/energy drink, have a quick snack while on a relatively boring and straight part of a highway without concerns I might miss something innocuous or float across the line. I can occasionally take a short mental break vs having to concentrate the whole time.

I'm not talking about what that Edmonton couple did where they slept and had their Tesla going 130 kmph up the QE2. I agree that's how you end up dead. I'm talking about using it in small scenarios where I'd be concerned a minor and momentary (vs monumental) lapse in judgement would be catastrophic. I'd be OK following behind an 18 wheeler at a distance with just minor attention to the whole scenario via these features too if I didn't have to constantly evaluate other things and continually drain my mental energy reserves. If anything it might help if I'm not in rush to reach a destination so that I could get a short momentary break in concentration.

Originally Posted by Sliver

I have a Genesis now and it has a great lane centering, radar cruise and highway drive assist. I just did 9 hours to an area north of Prince Albert, Saskatchewan a couple weeks ago and it's such a game changer compared to just regular old lane keep (or nothing) and standard non-radar cruise control. It really takes so much pressure off and lets you relax a ton more than driving in a car without it.

Also traffic jams and rush hour are big nothings to me now. Just press a button and my car drives me home, more or less.

Mine can adjust the speed to match signs (or you can set it to let you go 5 or 10 over), but I don't use that. I just keep the hammer down and hope my radar detector does the rest. So far so good on that.

Very similar if not exactly how I'd want to use that technology.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

That's if you put all your reliance on the technology. Fair comment for the average individual, but I personally don't do that. I still turn around and look out the back even with a back up camera.

What would be nice would be having the ability to quickly turn that on and turn to drink coffee/energy drink, have a quick snack while on a relatively boring and straight part of a highway without concerns I might miss something innocuous or float across the line. I can occasionally take a short mental break vs having to concentrate the whole time.

I'm not talking about what that Edmonton couple did where they slept and had their Tesla going 130 kmph up the QE2. I agree that's how you end up dead. I'm talking about using it in small scenarios where I'd be concerned a minor and momentary (vs monumental) lapse in judgement would be catastrophic. I'd be OK following behind an 18 wheeler at a distance with just minor attention to the whole scenario via these features too if I didn't have to constantly evaluate other things and continually drain my mental energy reserves. If anything it might help if I'm not in rush to reach a destination so that I could get a short momentary break in concentration.




Very similar if not exactly how I'd want to use that technology.

I think what Fuzz was responding to in your original post though is how you end up dead. The whole not having to be really awake thing for a 40 hour drive.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Wormius

The whole not having to be really awake thing for a 40 hour drive.

... 'the hell is the difference between that and how all you unaware bastards drive now?

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

Have you done any long trips with autopilot yet?

I personally don't "need" to upgrade to a car with cruise control with lane awareness, ACC and automatic adjustment of speed to the listed speed limit. But it would be nice to have so that I don't feel as tired after a long 6+ hour drive. I don't need an EV for this feature. I have a friend who drives back and forth between the Maritimes and Calgary a few times a year and have claimed these features in their ICE vehicles are the only reason why they consider it. I knew others that drove round trips from Calgary to Winnipeg regularly without this feature.

40+ hours one way (round trip) several times a year is insane. But with those features in a vehicle, I'd love to try.

Tossing the kids in the car around midnight and then waking up in Kelowna/Vancouver with my wife and I not worrying as much being awake for most of that trip to keep the car in check would be a pretty awesome luxury.

Whether its Tesla Autopilot or the advanced cruise control in cars like the Genesis that was just mentioned, this is one of the features you don't think you need but once you've experienced it, you can't live without.

It's just such a luxury, it feels like your car is chauffering you. You can indeed sit back and reach for something in the other seat, enjoy your coffee, and just take a portion of your mind off it mentally. If you hate rush hour traffic and traffic jams this is a game changer. Its very hard to explain unless you've experienced it in the drivers seat. Its like that feeling when you sit down on your sofa and you just relax...except your car is still moving to the destination and managing all the little starts and stops of a traffic jam and you don't need to feel stress. You are still attentive and ready to take over a split second if you need to, but there's just part of your mind that no-longer needs to be focused on all the minutiae of steering and feathering the gas and brake constantly. Its like going to an OLED TV, you don't know until you've tried and then it's hard to go back.

I rarely drive out of town or long distances. I use autopilot every day driving to the store or driving to work.

[calgarygeologist]

I rented an EV with Hertz while in Vegas and I wish the location rented out the vehicles with 80% charge instead of 100%. The rental agreement doesn't seem to have any sort of buffer and it says they charge $25 to recharge if you don't return it with the same level as pick up. I'll go through 5% to 10% just getting back to the airport so returning at 100% is pretty much impossible.

Also, the MGM Resorts only seem to have level 2 charger so charging is brutally slow but at least it is free. Unfortunately our resort didn't have any working chargers in the valet garage so if I wanted to charge up I had to put it in the self park garage and then bring it back to the valet.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

I rented an EV with Hertz while in Vegas and I wish the location rented out the vehicles with 80% charge instead of 100%. The rental agreement doesn't seem to have any sort of buffer and it says they charge $25 to recharge if you don't return it with the same level as pick up. I'll go through 5% to 10% just getting back to the airport so returning at 100% is pretty much impossible.

That sounds like a total scam, I would complain about the impossibility of doing that task. Its not like filling your gas tank on the return where the needle barely moves on the dial.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Whether its Tesla Autopilot or the advanced cruise control in cars like the Genesis that was just mentioned, this is one of the features you don't think you need but once you've experienced it, you can't live without.

It's just such a luxury, it feels like your car is chauffering you. You can indeed sit back and reach for something in the other seat, enjoy your coffee, and just take a portion of your mind off it mentally. If you hate rush hour traffic and traffic jams this is a game changer. Its very hard to explain unless you've experienced it in the drivers seat. Its like that feeling when you sit down on your sofa and you just relax...except your car is still moving to the destination and managing all the little starts and stops of a traffic jam and you don't need to feel stress. You are still attentive and ready to take over a split second if you need to, but there's just part of your mind that no-longer needs to be focused on all the minutiae of steering and feathering the gas and brake constantly. Its like going to an OLED TV, you don't know until you've tried and then it's hard to go back.

I rarely drive out of town or long distances. I use autopilot every day driving to the store or driving to work.

I'm not picking on you or anyone in this thread specifically, but the two bolded bits are not really in agreement, and studies have shown it takes the average person a lot more time to re-engage than a split second.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by photon

Every car with Autopilot recalled:



https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/12...afe-autopilot/

Nice thing about over the air software updates is software fixes are easy and don't need a dealership visit.

Shouldn’t it be called a patch rather than a recall?

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Shouldn’t it be called a patch rather than a recall?

Automotive rules makes it technically a recall.