Too many [mod edit]: people with quads, 4x4s...

[Dion]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Wow. The way some of you guys are talking really aggrivates me.

Dion. Extra tax dollars? Up yours, man.

Up mine?

That's an intelligent way to debate. Sorry I don't respond to insults.

[4X4]

Whatever. Your "point" was moot anyway.

[ken0042]

OK, there are obviously people on this board on both sides of the issue. Let's discuss it without having to start calling people names.

And calling names to 4X4ers in general when people on this board are obviously 4X4ers is not at all appropriate.

[4X4]

Sorry folks. I'm getting way too riled up. Got your warning, ken... I'll adhere.

edit**You're right. It was pretty low to call clarkey an Oilers fan. I'd be pretty choked too.

[Canada 02]

can you 4x4-ers drive over about a billion cicadas? They haven't emerged from the ground yet, so go out there and giver!

[Clarkey]

I wrote this, "They chew up the ground, drive through creeks and rivers, wash their trucks in the water, leave all kinds of crap, cut down trees, make all kinds of noise, shoot guns dangerously and even squat for months with dumpy trailers as if they own the land."

You can't deny that the 4x4 crowd aren't responsible (or irresponsible) for this. Maybe you don't do that stuff but that doesn't matter. It could be a case of a few bad apples spoiling it for the whole bunch but from what I've seen it's more likely a whole bunch of bad apples spoiling it for a few responsible ones. Go tear the crap out of the ground in a farmers field out by Brooks or something.

Tearing up mudholes is really ugly and looks like crap. It's the same to me as dumping litter in a park. And it's not just an aesthetic issue either, when you drive through rivers and dump oil and other sediment in there that affects the fisheries. There are less fish in that Waiporous area than other similar areas with fewer 4x4 users, it's probably partly from the same redneck imbreds poaching or handling them improperly but the driving in the waterways isn't helping either.

[4X4]

I guess beauty really is in the eye of the beholder. I find a trail riddled with mud pits a sight to behold - then to drive over.

But you do realize that places like waiporous and the back part of mclean are designated OHV areas, right? You know those signs that have a green circle around the letters OHV pretty much tell the tree huggers to stay the hell out.

I know that that paragraph came off pretty condescending and I apologize. Thanks for rebutting without going haywire like I did.


So, I'm officially waiting to hear from the boat crowd. I want to know why their hobby isn's as damaging as mine. Hikers too.
While I'm at it, I like to hear from homeowners and anyone that drives on a road. Oh yeah, and people that work indoors. I'd like to know how they manage to preserve nature while clear cutting swaths of land to produce lumber and space to live/drive/work.

[Dion]

When the RCMP have to send officers to cover these events some rural area/small town loses one of their officers. I live in a small town and know full well what happens when a town is short staffed when it comes to the RCMP.

Are all 4x4 owners irresponsible? Of course not, but, judging by the way the RCMP is handling this, i'd say there's a huge problem.

[4X4]

Well then lobby the provincial gov't. You're getting screwed out of your one cop per town? I'd be choked too. Tell honest Ed that we need more police! Just don't tell me that an activity enjoyed by thousands of people needs to cease because of a totally unrelated issue.

[Juventus3]

Originally Posted by 4X4

I guess beauty really is in the eye of the beholder. I find a trail riddled with mud pits a sight to behold - then to drive over.

But you do realize that places like waiporous and the back part of mclean are designated OHV areas, right? You know those signs that have a green circle around the letters OHV pretty much tell the tree huggers to stay the hell out.

I know that that paragraph came off pretty condescending and I apologize. Thanks for rebutting without going haywire like I did.


So, I'm officially waiting to hear from the boat crowd. I want to know why their hobby isn's as damaging as mine. Hikers too.
While I'm at it, I like to hear from homeowners and anyone that drives on a road. Oh yeah, and people that work indoors. I'd like to know how they manage to preserve nature while clear cutting swaths of land to produce lumber and space to live/drive/work.

Of course using a powerboat on a lake is going to leave an impact, especially when idiots start spilling gas while filling their tank. That said, all boaters are now required to take a safe boating course. It may not be much, but a portion of the course focuses on ensuring the habitat one uses for boating is minimally impacted. Perhaps the association of off roaders for Alberta could provide a course with a similar focus?

To dispute my own suggestion, I would argue that the crowd who generally uses these off road areas would not take kindly to a class showing them how to do something. They are very set in their ways, and I would go as far as saying they would not be interested in following the laws, even if they knew them.

[4X4]

It just makes me laugh that people can single out a whole crowd/activity for scorn because it isn't wart-free. I mean, when I'm out 4x4ing, these people are watching TV. TV is a terrible thing, isn't it? The way it pollutes the minds of the masses. IMO it is much more damaging the the earth than driving through mud.

[FireFly]

Let's not get carried away here... I lived in a small town and the RCMP were forced to cover the campgrounds at long weekends with or without any 4x4ers. It's not just them that cause issues... was the guy beaten half to death a 4x4er? Was his attacker a 4x4er? Was the fight over 4x4ing? Or were they just a couple idiots? Perhaps we should ban men in general from camping on long weekends because the majority of them get drunk and rowdy? See? Stupid, isn't it? People camping cause problems on long weekends in general, it's not just the 4x4ers that cause police to be dispatched.

[4X4]

Actually, you guys have no idea how serious the OHV crowd is and how organized. Any avid OHVers here (lurking or just not posting) know what the top site is in this province. They also know that there are meetings every time the crown decides which area to clear cut next (or rather give permission), discussing how it can be avoided or stopped.

So go on about your nature preservation, and keep telling me that I'm damaging the enviornment. But if you really want to be mad at the 4x4 crowd then you should know that our whining to the crown is what keeps delaying the clear cutting and hence, increases the price of your new house.

[TurnedTheCorner]

As usual, a few bad apples spoils the bunch. Add in the media bombarding the public with tales of increased police presence and such, its no wonder people react the way they do.

I'm not pro-environment, anti-environment, pro OHV or anti OHV. I'm anti ***hole. And it's unfortunate the few who make their way to these areas every long weekend cause as much trouble and hostility as they do.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Clarkey

Tearing up mudholes is really ugly and looks like crap. It's the same to me as dumping litter in a park.

I don't even know what to say about this. Here's a thought: you stay out of OHV areas, and I won't go to your park.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Let's not get carried away here... I lived in a small town and the RCMP were forced to cover the campgrounds at long weekends with or without any 4x4ers. It's not just them that cause issues... was the guy beaten half to death a 4x4er? Was his attacker a 4x4er? Was the fight over 4x4ing? Or were they just a couple idiots? Perhaps we should ban men in general from camping on long weekends because the majority of them get drunk and rowdy? See? Stupid, isn't it? People camping cause problems on long weekends in general, it's not just the 4x4ers that cause police to be dispatched.

Do you see the RCMP checking people as they enter the Mount Kidd campground? Or other campgrounds in the area? There's a reason why they targeted the Wiaprous area.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by troutman

That's not east of the foothills. If all these folks need is a mud bog, can't large areas be set-aside for this on the prairie?

You can't camp without trees. Well, maybe you can, but I can't.

Originally Posted by troutman

No one has mentioned it here yet, but it is the noise pollution that bothers me, just as much as the damage to the environment.

Again, stay out of the OHV zones if you don't like the soothing sound of a 2-stroke.
And please, can you mow your lawn while I'm out camping? The sound annoys me.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Dion

Do you see the RCMP checking people as they enter the Mount Kidd campground? Or other campgrounds in the area? There's a reason why they targeted the Wiaprous area.

Yep, they do it every year, every long weekend at all 3 major OHV areas (mclean, waiporous, indian graves). Checkstop going in, checkstop going out.

You wanna get drunk and drive your ATV? Just don't get caught.

I guess they figure that they've got us all rounded up inside a relatively small area, and Darwinism can sort out the losers. Anything wrong with that?

[8 Ball]

Originally Posted by Dion

Do you see the RCMP checking people as they enter the Mount Kidd campground? Or other campgrounds in the area? There's a reason why they targeted the Wiaprous area.

I was camping at Sandy Mcnabb with some friends and family and there was a steady stream of RCMP and fish cops rolling through and checking things out. Its a provincial campground with no ohv use. They step up police presence everywhere during May long.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Dion

Do you see the RCMP checking people as they enter the Mount Kidd campground? Or other campgrounds in the area? There's a reason why they targeted the Wiaprous area.

Well I don't camp there, so I can't say that I have seen it. However, they certainly do at the campground between Sundre and Olds... what the heck is it called? I can't remember now. But yeah, they do. Probably at most campgrounds.