Carter says Bush's presidency 'worst in history'

[Azure]

I wouldn't call it disarray...just all tied up in one place.

If anything, the experience the troops have gained has made them a more effective fighting force. But you are absolutely right about the debt load...and many other factors as well.

I still think if the US falls from being a superpower, it will be from within. Not from an outside force.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by Azure

I wouldn't call it disarray...just all tied up in one place.

Jesus, give me a freakin' break. The military is in disarray. They are stretched so thin they can't respond to issues in the United States with bodies or equipment. They are being forced to recycle soldiers as quick as they can just to maintain troop levels in Iraq. The reserves are comepletely tapped out. They are being forced to give convicted felons pardons, just as incentive to join the service and fill the needs. They can't recruit bodies to meet quotas and are required to lie and use dirty tricks to coherce people into signing up. No, no disarray there.

[CrusaderPi]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

Jesus, give me a freakin' break. The military is in disarray. They are stretched so thin they can't respond to issues in the United States with bodies or equipment. They are being forced to recycle soldiers as quick as they can just to maintain troop levels in Iraq. The reserves are comepletely tapped out. They are being forced to give convicted felons pardons, just as incentive to join the service and fill the needs. They can't recruit bodies to meet quotas and are required to lie and use dirty tricks to coherce people into signing up. No, no disarray there.

This rings with more truth then I'd like. The question I'd like answered is why? The engaged and supporting forces in Iraq and Afghanistan aren't big enough to seriously drain a nation as wealthy and large as the US, (in my opinion). The other question is why go to war in Iraq when immediate concerns were raise about the limits of infantry numbers.

Of all the things big and small Bush has done wrong these two, especially the former, are the biggest condemnations of his administration.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Americans will sacrafice when the cause is just. I think the nation has woke up to the fact that they were lied to and that there is no reason to be in the war. There is no reason to put your life on the line "protecting your country" when you are not protecting the country, but enforcing the grand experiment of a bunch of ideologues.

[feartheflames]

what bother me terribly about the bush administration is how fluidly 400 billion dollars were spent on this "war", when there are people in America who do not have access to running water, health care or education and that there are places where even cops are afraid to go...

[Azure]

They could still use part of their 13 trillion GDP to help those people.

Cutting the pork and balancing the budget would help as well.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by peter12

I've never heard a single political scientist or analyst state that Reagan prolonged the Cold War.

The guy, in part, sped up the collapse of the USSR because of his tough and uncompromising stance against Gorbachev and the Soviets.

I suggest you read Cold War Illusions: America, Europe, and Soviet Power, 1969-1989. Pretty interesting.

I first read about it in readers digest when I was about 15. It's not some crazy conspiracy theory.

Here's a really concise article on the subject: http://www.counterpunch.org/blum06072004.html

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Ya.

Go read christopher hitchen's june and july articles in the nation. Reagan officials were actively negotiating with Iraninan parties to keep the hostages secure until after the election.

.

Not sure I understand what you are trying to say here...

The hostages were released 12 hours after Reagan took office....but were still held hostage for 2 months after the election itself was conducted.

Reagan's election was most certainly the main cog in settling that whole travesty. Whether it be because they feared a real response from him or he had his "administration to be" negotiate such an ending is irrelevant.

In the end he got it done and Carter who had a year in power to settle things didn't. He came off as a very weak leader, which he was.

That's why I find it somewhat appropriate that Carter comes out so vocally against Bush and his tenure.....Carter would know what bad is no doubt.

And using anything from this site

http://www.counterpunch.org/blum06072004.html

is akin to a conservative using Rush Limbaugh as a source for truth and balanced reporting.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Interesting article by Blum. And I will definitely grab a copy of that book (if available).

Some comments on the source an the author. Counterpunch is a recognized as a radical LW source of opinion. It does provide a voice some some pretty bizzare points of view at times, but for the most part has extremely accurate articles that are will sourced and backed up. It is definitey much more accurate than many of the RW sites/sources that repeatedly refuse to source their stories and have been caught red handed inventing evidence. A grain of salt should always be employed when reading opinion, but counterpunch, and its authors, does have a good history of being able to back up their claims.

William Blum should have a pretty good grasp on this subject. He worked in the State Department and has been a long critic of US foreign policy. He has written several excellent books (exposes really) that delve into the shadowy actions of the American government and the CIA, including outlining the illegal actions they have undertaken to destabalize other nations and regions. Sadly, Blum's greatest claim to fame is having one of his books, Rogue State: A Guide to the World's Only Superpower, quoted by Osama bin Laden in one of his tapes.

Blum is an excellent writer and extremely well versed in his subject matter. If anyone wants some real history on the actions of the United States and the CIA feel free to pick up:

Killing Hope: US Military and CIA Interventions since WWII
Freeing the World to Death: Essays on the American Empire
The CIA: A Forgotten History

All three of these books are excellent reads and will open your eyes to the reality faced by those who hold different views to that of America. I have yet to find a copy of Rogue State (at a reasonable price) but one of my co-workers has read it and says it is very well done and the information accurate.

[Flash Walken]

That's a pretty good review.

Rogue State is good, reads more like a book than Killing Hope does.

[HOZ]

I have this to say about Carter's comments....

Takes one to know one!

[transplant99]

Carter now back-peddling on his comments...big surprise,

Interviewed on the TODAY Show about the comments, Carter said, "They were maybe careless or misinterpreted." He said he “certainly was not talking personally about any president.”

When pressed by NBC’s Meredith Vieira as to whether he was saying his remarks were careless or reckless, the former president said, “I think they were, yes, because they were interpreted as comparing this whole administration to all other administrations."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18759682/

[Azure]

I thought everyone said he was right...

At least he pulled back. A former President should have more respect then that.

[Vulcan]

I think Carter's original comments were right on. Bush changed American foriegn policy with his pre-emptive war on Iraq to policies of a hundred years ago.Bush and his lap dog are trying to regain the glories of the Victorian era with their expansion policies.

Carter is now an old man who doesnt want to fight anymore, so he backtracked, understandable. Oh and since when does having respect take a back seat to the truth.

[Azure]

If its the truth, why is he backtracking?

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Azure

If its the truth, why is he backtracking?

I think you mentioned it in post #53, a former president probably should have more respect than that. It was a completely unprecedented thing he did.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Carter is now an old man who doesnt want to fight anymore, so he backtracked, understandable. Oh and since when does having respect take a back seat to the truth.

I would bet it's much more along the lines of he doesn't want to get dragged into a comparison of administrations....his was not exactly held up as one to emulate either.

Besides, like it or not, it is rather unusual for past Presidents to criticize sitting Presidents. Look at Bush Sr and Clinton, they have joined together to bring relief to the tsunami and NO victims. Thats more along the lines of what kind of public prescence former heads of state should be doing...not criticizing current administrations.

I guess Nixon should have clobbered Carter during his tenure over the whole Iran hostage fiasco....but he didnt. He showed the respect that only guys who have done the job could have for the office and the difficulty there-in.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

I think you mentioned it in post #53, a former president probably should have more respect than that. It was a completely unprecedented thing he did.

I agree.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I would bet it's much more along the lines of he doesn't want to get dragged into a comparison of administrations....his was not exactly held up as one to emulate either.

Besides, like it or not, it is rather unusual for past Presidents to criticize sitting Presidents. Look at Bush Sr and Clinton, they have joined together to bring relief to the tsunami and NO victims. Thats more along the lines of what kind of public prescence former heads of state should be doing...not criticizing current administrations.

I guess Nixon should have clobbered Carter during his tenure over the whole Iran hostage fiasco....but he didnt. He showed the respect that only guys who have done the job could have for the office and the difficulty there-in.

There's a huge difference between the Iran hostage fiasco and Iraq. The Iran situation developed over many years of American meddling only to land on Carter's lap. He didn't handle it well, I guess and the States suffered a big loss of status but he didn't cause the problem, he inherited it.

Iraq is another ball of wax. Saddam was an irritant but hardly a threat to the USA and Bush took advantage of the 9/11 scare to invade. He took a good will towards America situation which he could have used to bring Osama and his ilk to bay, instead he brought the USA to become maybe, the most hated nation in the world. Not exactly leading his country in spreading world peace and democracy. Peace and democracy isn't spread by causing more wars it's spread by example. A slow process, I admit but petty leaders, like Bush have been trying their way for thousands of years and it just doesn't work.

Having said all that, I'm not against wars fought in self defence such as WWII or even Afghanistan.

[transplant99]

There's a huge difference between the Iran hostage fiasco and Iraq. The Iran situation developed over many years of American meddling only to land on Carter's lap. He didn't handle it well, I guess and the States suffered a big loss of status but he didn't cause the problem, he inherited it.

Bush didn't cause 9/11...he inherited it. (well unless you believe in the conspiracies running amok that it was actually soear-headed by the Neo cons) We can play this game all day though.

Doesn't detract from what I stated however....former Presidents, as a rule, do not criticize sitting ones, especially on policy. Its just a very rare thing to do.

Iraq is another ball of wax. Saddam was an irritant but hardly a threat to the USA and Bush took advantage of the 9/11 scare to invade. He took a good will towards America situation which he could have used to bring Osama and his ilk to bay, instead he brought the USA to become maybe, the most hated nation in the world. Not exactly leading his country in spreading world peace and democracy. Peace and democracy isn't spread by causing more wars it's spread by example. A slow process, I admit but petty leaders, like Bush have been trying their way for thousands of years and it just doesn't work.

That's nice. Doesn't have a thing to do with what I said though.