12-10-2023, 09:40 PM
|
#12961
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tkachukwagon
|
Weird development curve. From 15 goals in 67 games as a rookie last year to a scratch in the AHL this year.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
|
|
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to CliffFletcher For This Useful Post:
|
|
12-10-2023, 10:09 PM
|
#12962
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by CliffFletcher
Weird development curve. From 15 goals in 67 games as a rookie last year to a scratch in the AHL this year.
|
One of those guys that is only good and offense but isn’t good enough at that one thing. So he gets passed by other prospects and signings
|
|
|
12-10-2023, 10:21 PM
|
#12963
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Richmond upon Thames, London
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayswin
It still blows me away to this day that Treliving paid a first and two seconds for Travis Hamonic. Looking at most trades in the last few years it is absolute lunacy.
|
Treliving falls in love with odd players.
|
|
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TrentCrimmIndependent For This Useful Post:
|
|
12-10-2023, 10:28 PM
|
#12964
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayswin
Other teams? He had clearly stated he was going to western Canada or nothing.
edit: It looks like Calgary, Edmonton, Vnacouver or Winnipeg. How many teams put in a bid and what we're the other bids in your recollection?
|
you would argue me if I said the sky was blue lol
Leafs were said to have the exact same offer on the table for him but the Islanders thought the Flames picks would likely be better
do a two second google search there are plenty of articles saying "the sweepstakes is down to Leafs and Flames"
He was known as a very good dman on a great contract at the time...I'm not suggesting it turned out to be a good move but he was heavily sought after at the time. Market for dman goes crazy at times...especially a top 4 with term on a contract under 4M. Facy stats guys loved him and fancy stats were the new thing.
https://theathletic.com/70660/2017/0...o-without-him/
"But the Leafs didn’t get him. They were, according to multiple sources, excruciatingly close. My sense is they came away from the draft in Chicago disappointed to not get that one vital piece in place."
__________________
GFG
Last edited by dino7c; 12-10-2023 at 10:38 PM.
|
|
|
12-10-2023, 10:49 PM
|
#12965
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayswin
It still blows me away to this day that Treliving paid a first and two seconds for Travis Hamonic. Looking at most trades in the last few years it is absolute lunacy.
|
Worst part is that pick was used to select Dobson. Just a ridiculous trade for a team that should have been in the middle of a rebuild, not at the end.
|
|
|
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Jacks For This Useful Post:
|
|
12-10-2023, 10:56 PM
|
#12966
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2022
Location: California
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacks
Worst part is that pick was used to select Dobson. Just a ridiculous trade for a team that should have been in the middle of a rebuild, not at the end.
|
The worst part is that we traded it. You’d feel better if New York picked a bust and someone else got Dobson? How would that help us?
|
|
|
12-11-2023, 05:54 AM
|
#12967
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Dallas
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by dino7c
you would argue me if I said the sky was blue lol
Leafs were said to have the exact same offer on the table for him but the Islanders thought the Flames picks would likely be better
do a two second google search there are plenty of articles saying "the sweepstakes is down to Leafs and Flames"
He was known as a very good dman on a great contract at the time...I'm not suggesting it turned out to be a good move but he was heavily sought after at the time. Market for dman goes crazy at times...especially a top 4 with term on a contract under 4M. Facy stats guys loved him and fancy stats were the new thing.
https://theathletic.com/70660/2017/0...o-without-him/
"But the Leafs didn’t get him. They were, according to multiple sources, excruciatingly close. My sense is they came away from the draft in Chicago disappointed to not get that one vital piece in place."
|
He was available for a long time even with a trade request
|
|
|
12-11-2023, 07:05 AM
|
#12968
|
#1 Goaltender
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamesfan05
He was available for a long time even with a trade request
|
…….so?
The Islanders had a price and were patient. They did a good job in this instance.
The rumor I had heard was the Leafs offered JVR, who at the time was headed into his UFA season, and a first. The Islanders actually preferred the Leafs package but there was a hang up with JVR using some trade protection or him not being available to waive his NTC.
The price was steep and the deal was bad in retrospect for all the reasons we’ve been rehashing for 6-7 years or so. But Treliving’s intentions weren’t misguided nor was the price he paid out of line.
What I find most erroneous is people like to draw a direct line to Noah Dobson. The Flames didn’t trade Noah Dobson, they traded a first round pick. Bear in mind also that the Islanders didn’t want to trade Hamonic, they did so to respect Hamonic’s personal decision. Also, Snow said after the deal he didn’t want a future’s based package and he intended to use the picks to back fill the void Hamonic left.
Lastly, as evidenced by the trade itself, the Flames were intent on improving. They moved those picks with purpose. If it wasn’t Hamonic, then it likely would have been someone else. And in some other alternate universe, who knows how things end up.
I just find it funny that many people who criticize the Flames the most for this deal, or that deal, also criticize the Flames for not making enough deals…..
|
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to TOfan For This Useful Post:
|
|
12-11-2023, 07:25 AM
|
#12969
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Dallas
|
I find it funny people are still defending the wizard
And of all trades, they have to defend the Hamonic’s deal. The wizard didn’t do his homework. The guy was already down hill before the trade.
|
|
|
12-11-2023, 07:29 AM
|
#12970
|
Franchise Player
|
Hamonic was weird because he was a really solid defenseman, and very highly regarded. The Tanev comparison is a good one - a defensive defenseman who was a warrior and a good team guy. I was very pleased when we acquired him.
Then he came to Calgary and it was like all his mojo was just sucked out of him.
It was just another manifestation of the Flames' curse.
|
|
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Enoch Root For This Useful Post:
|
|
12-11-2023, 07:35 AM
|
#12971
|
Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
|
Man the "wizard" is almost becoming "what a Flames thing to do" for me.
Put it to rest.
|
|
|
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Bingo For This Useful Post:
|
|
12-11-2023, 07:57 AM
|
#12972
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamesfan05
I find it funny people are still defending the wizard
And of all trades, they have to defend the Hamonic’s deal. The wizard didn’t do his homework. The guy was already down hill before the trade.
|
Two possibilities:
A) The management and scouts of the Flames, Leafs, Jets, and other teams that bid on Hamonic (so 15 or so experienced hockey people) - all failed to do their homework.
B) Hamonic’s play declined much faster than many experts anticipated.
I’m gonna to with B.
You can question whether the Flames should have been spending high draft capital on a 2nd pairing d-man. But the price they paid for Hamonic was his market value at the time.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
|
|
|
|
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to CliffFletcher For This Useful Post:
|
|
12-11-2023, 08:12 AM
|
#12973
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: NC
|
Didn’t know where to put this:
https://twitter.com/user/status/1734021294310523369
LTIR is being abused and has been for years.
|
|
|
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to ForeverFlameFan For This Useful Post:
|
|
12-11-2023, 08:24 AM
|
#12974
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Fernando Valley
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by CliffFletcher
Two possibilities:
A) The management and scouts of the Flames, Leafs, Jets, and other teams that bid on Hamonic (so 15 or so experienced hockey people) - all failed to do their homework.
B) Hamonic’s play declined much faster than many experts anticipated.
I’m gonna to with B.
You can question whether the Flames should have been spending high draft capital on a 2nd pairing d-man. But the price they paid for Hamonic was his market value at the time.
|
Hamonic was a mediocre defenseman playing a lot of minutes on a bad Islanders team. His play was declining season over season with the Islanders with his worst season being the one where the Flames traded for him. Cleary a lot of pro scouts (Flames and Leafs) didn't do a very good job scouting him as it seems like they were counting on a bounce back on a different team which is fine but not at the steep cost the Flame ultimately paid. The Flames had the GM that was willing to sacrifice more and that's why the Flames came out big losers that fateful day.
|
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to Erick Estrada For This Useful Post:
|
|
12-11-2023, 08:26 AM
|
#12975
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bay Area
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent
Treliving falls in love with odd players.
|
Agree. Seems if you hold out long enough he just keeps upping his price. Monahan is another with the oddly favourable and convoluted conditions.
Not out of this world if Conroy plays right to see Tanev eventually going for a ransom because of this.
__________________
.
"Fun must be always!" - Tomas Hertl
Last edited by dustygoon; 12-11-2023 at 08:36 AM.
|
|
|
12-11-2023, 08:27 AM
|
#12976
|
Taking a while to get to 5000
|
Treliving had last say on player movement and given that he was after Hamonic for several seasons prior to actually obtaining him, likely made the call on his own regardless of the input given him.
I'd imagine that happened on several occasions. Can't see someone like Chris Snow advocating for James Neal and yet that signing happened.
|
|
|
12-11-2023, 08:29 AM
|
#12977
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: NC
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent
Treliving falls in love with odd players.
|
Right handed defenseman that are either big, defensive, or can eat minutes are his MO.
Engelland
Hamilton
Hamonic
Tanev
And the Risto rumors. Maybe a couple I've left out but there seems to be a common theme.
|
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to ForeverFlameFan For This Useful Post:
|
|
12-11-2023, 08:30 AM
|
#12978
|
Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
|
Hamonic was on a very cost controlled contract which added value to him too.
|
|
|
12-11-2023, 08:40 AM
|
#12979
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Indiana
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick Estrada
Hamonic was a mediocre defenseman playing a lot of minutes on a bad Islanders team. His play was declining season over season with the Islanders with his worst season being the one where the Flames traded for him. Cleary a lot of pro scouts (Flames and Leafs) didn't do a very good job scouting him as it seems like they were counting on a bounce back on a different team which is fine but not at the steep cost the Flame ultimately paid. The Flames had the GM that was willing to sacrifice more and that's why the Flames came out big losers that fateful day.
|
This is true. Which is why his steep "decline" should have been predictable - it had already happened.
It's possible for several teams to have bad scouting. If 3 out of 31 teams have bad judgment, it doesn't make it excusable.
|
|
|
12-11-2023, 08:42 AM
|
#12980
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by CliffFletcher
Two possibilities:
A) The management and scouts of the Flames, Leafs, Jets, and other teams that bid on Hamonic (so 15 or so experienced hockey people) - all failed to do their homework.
B) Hamonic’s play declined much faster than many experts anticipated.
I’m gonna to with B.
You can question whether the Flames should have been spending high draft capital on a 2nd pairing d-man. But the price they paid for Hamonic was his market value at the time.
|
It appears the other teams were not prepared to pay what Treliving did. Without details on this, it's hard to know if he offered a lot more or a little more. The evidence we do have points to the Flames placing more value on this player than these other 15 hockey people.
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:08 PM.
|
|