[Rumour] Coyotes owner put in letter of intent to buy 41 acres of land in Mesa, Arizona

[Strange Brew]

The point Walsh is making is these guys love to talk about what they are doing. That’s how you get a deal done?

What actual leg work have these guys done to give you confidence they have financing, development plans, public assistance lined up?

[TheScorpion]

They seemed to have that all in order last time. The only hurdle they couldn't get past was the vote, otherwise they were primed to begin remediation on that site immediately. The authorities in Tempe were unanimous, but the people weren't. But that plan was concrete in every other regard.

[DoubleK]

I'm trying to think where the site is. NE Phoenix adjacent to Scottsdale is what Camelback Rd?

The article also mentions Paradise Valley, which is fairly far north. This rink could be in a much worse location than the Tempe site.

I hope the Tempe voters get a lot of use out of their unreclaimed garbage dump.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

They seemed to have that all in order last time. The only hurdle they couldn't get past was the vote, otherwise they were primed to begin remediation on that site immediately. The authorities in Tempe were unanimous, but the people weren't. But that plan was concrete in every other regard.

All in order? You’re forgetting about the lawsuit. And of course the failed public vote. I’m just suggesting that evaluating these guys on their ability to get things done is the way to go.

[TheScorpion]

The lawsuit was not expected to impede the start of construction though. Pretty much every public infrastructure project up for plebiscite in the states is subject to some form of litigation.

That said, I do not have a whole ton of confidence in the Meruelo group on a host of fronts. But I'm also not going to make assumptions on what will and won't happen until we see significant deviation from the path the league set out over the summer.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

The lawsuit was not expected to impede the start of construction though. Pretty much every public infrastructure project up for plebiscite in the states is subject to some form of litigation.

Are there facts and data to support this? Sounds like something coming from the organization.

In any case, where you see no deviation from their plan I see no objectively verifiable progress.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Are there facts and data to support this? Sounds like something coming from the organization.

‘I have no evidence, but I want to disagree with your conclusion so I will assume that your evidence is tainted.’

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

‘I have no evidence, but I want to disagree with your conclusion so I will assume that your evidence is tainted.’

There's plenty of evidence alright.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

There's plenty of evidence alright.

You just implied that there was not:

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Are there facts and data to support this? Sounds like something coming from the organization.

You are arguing against the claim that litigation is a common feature in projects requiring a plebiscite in the U.S. You have offered nothing, zero, zilch, zip, nada, in evidence against that claim. You reject the claim itself as ‘something coming from the organization’, i.e. propaganda from an interested party, and as such of no evidentiary value – without any proof that this is indeed the source.

If there is ‘plenty of evidence’ against TheScorpion's claim, let's hear some of it.

[topfiverecords]

Let’s just wait and see what Monday brings.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

I'm trying to think where the site is. NE Phoenix adjacent to Scottsdale is what Camelback Rd?

That would be south to central Phoenix. People don't realize just how big Phoenix is. The boundaries for north Phoenix extend all the way north of Carefree Highway and then into what some think of Scottsdale as far north as Dove Valley Rd. Northeast Phoenix adjacent to Scottsdale could be anything from Cactus all the way to Jomax along Scottsdale Rd.

If you're trying to find the site, start looking for sites zoned commercial and away from residential or restricted zones for development. I would think start looking for sites similar to the one in Mesa, an old gravel pit. Thinking already commercial zoned and limited restrictions that may turn political, I would guess in around Pinnacle Peak to Happy Valley Rds, sandwiched between 68th and Scottsdale Rd. Still have residential across the street, but that's a different municipality and the political fight is likely to limited.

The article also mentions Paradise Valley, which is fairly far north. This rink could be in a much worse location than the Tempe site.

This site would be just as bad as Glendale, which would be part and parcel with the Coyotes. I'm not sure how much smoke there is to this. Haven't heard of anything on this around the Phoenix government water cooler and something like this would be causing a stir, especially if it were up against another municipality. Site selection and a LOI is one thing, getting support from the municipality and the citizens is another. You might get support from Mesa, as Giles doesn't want to let another major sports draw slip through his fingers, but Phoenix/Scottsdale are completely different animals. A location where they are talking seems unlikely. Too many political hoops to jump through.

[Jordan!]

I live in Gilbert and the drive there would be a trek, but I made the drive on the 202 to the 101 just to get to Glendale (Before the 202 South Mountain was completed, I refused to take the I-10 to Glendale) and dreamed a rink would end up in the desert ridge/city north/north Phoenix area. It's literally IN the highest value ticket base and very close to where practically all of the players live. The land is HIGH end and Meruelo will make an absolute killing on housing alone. The team could continue to draw 5000 fans a game and Meruelo would still be profitable.

Tempe was an amazing location but parking, in and out to freeway would've been a god damn nightmare.

People saying this new location is as bad as Glendale are out to lunch.. This is the best location if you want to fill Suites and high priced ticketed seats. Sure Gilbert and Chandler get a bit of a drive but it's its still close enough to provide access to Southeast valley hockey people.

But most importantly, that location allows Meruelo/Coyotes to rake in as much retail and condo/apartment money as possible. Right now people in that affluent area can only go to Scottsdale Quarter as the nearest spot or Kierland.. now they may have a "Rodeo Drive" of the valley in their back yard.

[White Out 403]

Serious question. Why do they need a hockey arena that will always be empty to get their own Rodeo drive? If Murelo wants to be a real estate tycoon why does he need an NHL team? I understand the concept of a loss leader but what value does an empty NHL arena bring?

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

Serious question. Why do they need a hockey arena that will always be empty to get their own Rodeo drive? If Murelo wants to be a real estate tycoon why does he need an NHL team? I understand the concept of a loss leader but what value does an empty NHL arena bring?

There's more to the arena than hockey though, other events, etc.. He also just wants to be in sports so they're symbiotic.

Sports has been an entry to massive real estate development across North America.

[PeteMoss]

I'm not in the market - but at this point you'd almost think its better for the market that the Coyotes leave and they expand back there with a new team with the arena settled.

I have to imagine the Coyotes brand has next to no value in the market outside of it being seen as a clown show.

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

I'm not in the market - but at this point you'd almost think its better for the market that the Coyotes leave and they expand back there with a new team with the arena settled.

I have to imagine the Coyotes brand has next to no value in the market outside of it being seen as a clown show.

I would be 100% be on board for a complete team re-branding to be honest.. The name Coyotes has a stink to it. Has that ever been done in pro sports? Phoenix Scorpions?

[Jordan!]

From Dreger:

Not sure commissioner Bettman or the Arizona Coyotes will expand on this today. As mentioned last night on @TSNHockey, the Coyotes are finalizing the purchase of a piece of land in Phoenix for an arena build. They’re hoping to announce project plans next month.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

That would be south to central Phoenix. People don't realize just how big Phoenix is. The boundaries for north Phoenix extend all the way north of Carefree Highway and then into what some think of Scottsdale as far north as Dove Valley Rd. Northeast Phoenix adjacent to Scottsdale could be anything from Cactus all the way to Jomax along Scottsdale Rd.

If you're trying to find the site, start looking for sites zoned commercial and away from residential or restricted zones for development. I would think start looking for sites similar to the one in Mesa, an old gravel pit. Thinking already commercial zoned and limited restrictions that may turn political, I would guess in around Pinnacle Peak to Happy Valley Rds, sandwiched between 68th and Scottsdale Rd. Still have residential across the street, but that's a different municipality and the political fight is likely to limited.



This site would be just as bad as Glendale, which would be part and parcel with the Coyotes. I'm not sure how much smoke there is to this. Haven't heard of anything on this around the Phoenix government water cooler and something like this would be causing a stir, especially if it were up against another municipality. Site selection and a LOI is one thing, getting support from the municipality and the citizens is another. You might get support from Mesa, as Giles doesn't want to let another major sports draw slip through his fingers, but Phoenix/Scottsdale are completely different animals. A location where they are talking seems unlikely. Too many political hoops to jump through.

I don't the area and have never been to it but looking at the map the area you suggests looks to be much worse than Glendale. Just like the Flames putting an arena in Okotoks in terms of distance from the core.

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by Buff

I don't the area and have never been to it but looking at the map the area you suggests looks to be much worse than Glendale. Just like the Flames putting an arena in Okotoks in terms of distance from the core.

Not even close.. you should've stopped here

Pick the richest area of Calgary and put an arena/development on its doorstep. Glendale is blue collar, lower income and a completely different demographic. The only issue is that it's quite far for the "Middle class" hockey fans that largely reside in Chandler or Gilbert but still way better than Glendale.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Jordan!

People saying this new location is as bad as Glendale are out to lunch.. This is the best location if you want to fill Suites and high priced ticketed seats. Sure Gilbert and Chandler get a bit of a drive but it's its still close enough to provide access to Southeast valley hockey people.

But most importantly, that location allows Meruelo/Coyotes to rake in as much retail and condo/apartment money as possible. Right now people in that affluent area can only go to Scottsdale Quarter as the nearest spot or Kierland.. now they may have a "Rodeo Drive" of the valley in their back yard.

So you know where this new site is? Please share, because unless you know for certain where the NE Phoenix/Scottsdale location is you’re making assumptions that are unlikely to materialize. Just building in that location is unlikely to lead to a windfall for anyone. If that were the case all sports facilities would be in Scottsdale. Cause the other owners would know what you’re suggesting. The reality is Scottsdale wants no part of such facilities and not many citizens would support such an enterprise. There are decades of support that those in Scottsdale prefer these facilities elsewhere.

Looking at the zoning map and recognizing the dynamics of Metro Phoenix politics I am at a loss to where this location could be. The limits on where a facility like this could go are pretty significant. And it’s not like we’re going to see zoning altered for the Coyotes. That has failed at every turn. So to suggest Coyotes ownership is going to get rich off this venture from a real estate perspective, that doesn’t hold water. Glendale thought the same and it was a disaster. Sports facilities do not create Rodeo Drives, they do the opposite. They don’t create vibrant residential areas, they do the opposite. This would be another entertainment district in a sea of entertainment districts and tax payers have no interest in that.