Israel declares war on Hamas

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Trudeau has condemned Hamas, affirmed Israel's right to self defense, has offered condolences to Silver's family, and also asked for maximum restraint to protect Palestinian lives.

All of these can be said without contradicting each other, I see nothing wrong with his comments.

He has also not called for a ceasefire as far as I know.

I mean the guy is a moron and needs to resign, but outside of his stupidity when it came to the hospital 'bombing', I don't really see an issue with is comments.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by Azure

He has also not called for a ceasefire as far as I know.

I mean the guy is a moron and needs to resign, but outside of his stupidity when it came to the hospital 'bombing', I don't really see an issue with is comments.

Calling for a cease fire makes you an antisemitic. Besides that apparently according to Israel they do that every day.

The Irony is lost for them .
/ greenntext/.

#### both sides . You want old school religion?
? This is what it gets you. Let both sides let the nukes fly..

[Mr.Coffee]

I’m trying to follow the logic of the “let nukes fly” folks.

“We’re upset about the death of (insert group)!”

“Kill them all!”

[Doctorfever]

This is a very large generalization, and certainly not correct for everyone, but why is it the the left seems to generally be against Israel and the right is generally supportive or Israel.

Any idea why this is?

Also, what is with the far left support of Osama Bin Ladin in the US?

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

This is a very large generalization, and certainly not correct for everyone, but why is it the the left seems to generally be against Israel and the right is generally supportive or Israel.

Any idea why this is?

Because it appears that Israel is acting something of an oppressive bully in this situation, and coming at their enemy with disproportionate retaliation level is causing some level-headed people to question the tactics. If they want to create future terrorists, this is probably the way to do it.

I think some people are feeling some sympathy for a group that had been corralled into a small territory and repressed. It’s hard not to compare it to being treated like cattle.

Also, what is with the far left support of Osama Bin Ladin in the US?

You think Tik Tok is an accurate representation of anything?

[timun]

Many right-wingers support Israel because they're bible-thumpers who believe that God gave "the land of Canaan" (modern-day Israel) to Abraham and his descendants through his second son Isaac (grandfather of the 12 tribes of Israel, from whom Jews descend) in perpetuity, whereas Abraham's first son Ishmael (from whom the 12 tribes of Ishmael descend, and from those 12 tribes, Arabs) had his own nation (in modern-day Arabia). Thus, they believe Jews have an inalienable, God-given right to the land that is modern-day Israel, and Arabs categorically do not have any right to it and don't belong there.

They also believe that a re-established Jewish state across all of Israel is part of the prophesied Second Coming of Jesus, Judgment Day, Armageddon, etc.

[starseed]

I voted for Trudeau in the last few elections, and likely will again - but I certainly dont support Hamas, and very much support the Israeli efforts to eliminate them in Gaza.

I am in the camp that does not see it disproportionate to fight back against those launching thousands of rockets on a regular basis at your civilians. I am also in the camp that doesn't see democratic Israel as fully represented by Netanyahu's ilk who support the settler violence in the West bank, etc.

Sent from my SM-N986U1 using Tapatalk

[Harry Lime]

Like most things political, it's basically sports. One side picks a team, and then the other side has to pick the other team. From there it's mostly about righteous clarification of their position.

[edslunch]

I wish people on social media and elsewhere could discuss this conflict with resorting to anti-semitism, Islamophobia, or accusations thereof. It should be perfectly fine to criticize Israel the country’s past and current actions without casting aspersions on the Jewish faith. Likewise criticism of Hamas should not equal criticism of Islam. Support for one side is not an attack on the other side’s religion.

Of course religion is woven deeply into this conflict, but criticizing things on a religious basis is a very broad brush that affects many innocent people.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

This is a very large generalization, and certainly not correct for everyone, but why is it the the left seems to generally be against Israel and the right is generally supportive or Israel.

Any idea why this is?

Also, what is with the far left support of Osama Bin Ladin in the US?

Standpoint theory. The stronger party in a conflict has agency and is the oppressor, while the weaker party always has the moral high ground.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...israel/675625/

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

This is a very large generalization, and certainly not correct for everyone, but why is it the the left seems to generally be against Israel and the right is generally supportive or Israel.

Any idea why this is?

Also, what is with the far left support of Osama Bin Ladin in the US?

Also a very large generalization, but the left leans more towards human rights and the right more towards law and order. This is more pronounced and more vocal on the far ends of the spectrum.

[afc wimbledon]

Historically the Arab side was sponsored by the Soviet Union and the Israelis were a client state of the US and West, hence the 60's radicals embracing Arafat in the same way they supported Castro, Ho Chi Minh etc, I think their is a certain inertia to left wing support, in reality all Islamic liberation movements represent repressive repugnant ideals and attitudes to everything the left holds dear but its hard to give up on seeing the oppressed as intrinsically 'pure and good'

[WCW Nitro]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

This is a very large generalization, and certainly not correct for everyone, but why is it the the left seems to generally be against Israel and the right is generally supportive or Israel.

Any idea why this is?

Also, what is with the far left support of Osama Bin Ladin in the US?

The left is generally more anti-war than the right, and since the left is concentrated in more diverse, urban areas it may be exposed to more views or be minorities themselves so less jingoistic about a country or its allies.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Historically the Arab side was sponsored by the Soviet Union and the Israelis were a client state of the US and West, hence the 60's radicals embracing Arafat in the same way they supported Castro, Ho Chi Minh etc, I think their is a certain inertia to left wing support, in reality all Islamic liberation movements represent repressive repugnant ideals and attitudes to everything the left holds dear but its hard to give up on seeing the oppressed as intrinsically 'pure and good'

And like in Afghanistan, the Americans saw extreme right wing religious fanaticism as a good counter punch to communist ideology, and we are still seeing the blowback from that today. It was so stupid.

[WCW Nitro]

Apart from the intelligence failure, it now looks like some of the Israelis may have been killed by the Israeli forces themselves.

https://www.haaretz.co.il/news/polit...f-f5ff4d070000


According to a police source, an investigation into the incident also revealed that an IDF combat helicopter that arrived at the scene from the Ramat David base fired at the terrorists and apparently also hit some of the revelers who were there.

[Harry Lime]

Is that source the company of Haaretz out of the great state of Illinois?

[FlameOn]

Surveillance footage released showing Oct 7th hostages at Shifa hospital after capture by Hamas

https://twitter.com/user/status/1726311040072474812

Also first footage of the tunnel system under the hospital released.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-hospital-gaza

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by flameon

surveillance footage released showing oct 7th hostages at shifa hospital after capture by hamas

https://twitter.com/user/status/1726311040072474812

also first footage of the tunnel system under the hospital released.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-hospital-gaza

nm

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Level-headed left in action.

Huh?

[KootenayFlamesFan]

GAZA/TEL AVIV, Nov 22 (Reuters) - Israel's government and Hamas on Wednesday agreed to a four-day pause in fighting to allow the release of 50 hostages held in Gaza in exchange for 150 Palestinians imprisoned in Israel, and the entry of humanitarian aid into the besieged enclave.

Officials from Qatar, which has been mediating negotiations, as well as the U.S., Israel and Hamas have for days been saying a deal was imminent.

Hamas is believed to be holding more than 200 hostages, taken when its fighters surged into Israel on Oct. 7, killing 1,200 people, according to Israeli tallies.

A statement by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's Office said 50 women and children will be released over four days, during which there will be a pause in fighting.

For every additional 10 hostages released, the pause would be extended by another day, it said, without mentioning the release of Palestinian prisoners in exchange.

"Israel's government is committed to return all the hostages home. Tonight, it approved the proposed deal as a first stage to achieving this goal," said the statement, released after hours of deliberation that were closed to the press.

Hamas said the 50 hostages would be released in exchange for 150 Palestinian women and children who are held in Israeli jails. The truce deal will also allow hundreds of trucks of humanitarian, medical and fuel aid to enter Gaza, Hamas said.

Israel had committed not to attack or arrest anyone in all parts of Gaza during the truce period, it added.

The accord is the first truce of a war in which Israeli bombardments have flattened swathes of Hamas-ruled Gaza, killed 13,300 civilians in the tiny densely populated enclave and left about two-thirds of its 2.3 million people homeless, according to authorities in Gaza.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...ce-2023-11-21/