Who bought gas on May 15th?

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by TurnedTheCorner

You store your own natural gas? Interesting...I assumed you meant you had a fixed price contract on your natural gas. Which no matter how it compares to the current market, several traders made a margin on before it came to you at a locked in price anyway.

I shudder to think of the complexities and BS that would be introduced if consumers could choose fixed price gasoline contracts.

Nope. I have no contract. I just know that there is some regulatory board that tells us the month before how much natural gas will cost next month. So as of now I can say how much it be in June, then in June I will know July's price, etc.

And no, I don't have a natural gas storage device. But that was what I was trying to get at- the reason they don't want to tell us tomorrow's gas price is they know we all have the power to store it.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by TheyCallMeBruce

Here's a question I pose to SUV and v8 owners. Are you looking to trade for a more economical vehicle? If not, what would the price of gas be before you come to that point?

Thats a good question, I own a Jeep as well as modified sports car that can use $80 in fuel in a matter of hours, but the Jeep is actually pretty good. I dont know what my 'breaking point' might be, the car doesnt get driven quite as much because it will literally bankrupt me if I used it as a daily driver.

$1.50 for regular I would have to say is preposterously outrageous and I think I would have to either follow through on my Venezuelan dirt-farming venture or become a hermit.

Locke.

BTW I wont ride my bike because it doesnt like being fueled by beer. That endeavor usually ends in a various series on tragedies. Not pleasant at all.

[Kerplunk]

Originally Posted by SeeGeeWhy

Pardon my french, but bull.

Which part?

[TurnedTheCorner]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Nope. I have no contract. I just know that there is some regulatory board that tells us the month before how much natural gas will cost next month. So as of now I can say how much it be in June, then in June I will know July's price, etc.

And no, I don't have a natural gas storage device. But that was what I was trying to get at- the reason they don't want to tell us tomorrow's gas price is they know we all have the power to store it.

Right, I see where you're coming from now. Thanks!

[Ayrahb]

Originally Posted by TheyCallMeBruce

Here's a question I pose to SUV and v8 owners. Are you looking to trade for a more economical vehicle? If not, what would the price of gas be before you come to that point?

As I said in my previous post, I am already at my breaking point and switching to as economical as it probably gets. I drive my SUV every day and, believe me, once I get rid of it I am not going back. Well, maybe if I moved to Saudi Arabia or Venezuela....

I started to think about switching when gas stayed over 0.85 consistently, started complaining when it went over 0.95, and said "To hell with this" at 1.00.

I am one of the people in this province who doesn't benefit from O&G and related sectors raking in billions--as a matter of fact, my ability to stay afloat in this city is diminishing daily. As handy as an SUV can get, it represents a standard of living that I cannot support any longer.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Yeah, unless you make a consciencious effot to use less gas, what effect does it really have? Just means twice as many people will buy gas the next day. If you really want to make an impact convince people to have one driving free day a week (obvioulsy everyone can't do this, but some people could if they made the effort) type of thing where they don't drive at all, or have people do things like stop at grocery stores on their way home from work rather than going home than going to the store later type of thing.

Exactly. I filled up with gas because I needed it, I live in the country, if I went home, would not be able to get back into Calgary.

Everyone will now fill up with gas on May 16 and maybe even drive up prices because it might seem like there is a higher than normal demand.

If on the other hand, you want to conserve energy, and drive less and use less, then fine, you might make a difference. Most of the tax price is taxes, so not much room to maneuver outside of that. There was a report just last week that right now, they think gas prices are too high, but what do you want the government to do? legislate gas prices too?

Gas prices are largely influenced by speculation about various world events and then by supply and demand.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I appreciate your insight; but to me it just seems like corperate spin. Last night on the news when they said that gas has gone up 30¢ since the start of the year, I did a double take. The thing is; the gas companies have just been doing these little increases a few cents at a time to (what it seems to me) just pad the bottom line. Each fill costs me a buck or two more; which per $40 fill isn't much. But then before I know it that fill which used to cost me $36 now costs $45.

The thing of it is; I can tell you exactly how much I will pay in June for natural gas. Why can't gasoline have a stable price like that- or at least have us know when the price will be going up? To me the big difference is the fact that every driver owns a gasoline storage unit; whereas very few homeowners have a natural gas storage unit.

I can appreciate that the perception of things can sometimes seem like Skullduggary. Those 'few cents' each time are actually companies trying to be proactive to avoid a shortage or missing a market opportunity. When a major event happens on the supply side companies forecast what that's going to do to inventory and then watch competitors prices and then adjust accordingly. They don't want to have too much inventory or too little. The worst thing that can happen to a gas station is to run out between deliveries.

I suppose the phrase 'market opportunity' is what you call 'gouging'. I hate to go back to my e-bay example, but go try to buy something from the 'Buy/Sell' thread and ask someone to cut their price in half and sell that to you despite someone else's bid because they won't starve if they sell it to you at that price. It's not right to expect that of them nor is it right to expect that from any company selling anything.

[SeeGeeWhy]

Kerplunk, the part I out in bold.

Ayrahb, what do you do for a living? I find it quite interesting that you claim to have no positive impact on your life from the O&G industry in this city.

[Cube Inmate]

I appreciate Cowboy's take on this.

People talk about the inelastic demand for gas, but it's not...my city driving habits may change very little in the range of $0.50/L to $2.00/L, but my longer trips will certainly be affected at the higher range, and I'll make much more of an effort to share rides. If it takes a $0.20 price hike to reduce demand by 0.25%, that's the way it is. I'd prefer to pay extra than to have the gas supply run out.

The best argument I ever heard defending against the accusation of price-gouging was that the market operates precisely at the margin where the cost of entry to the industry can't be made up in profits in a reasonable time. If profits for gasoline retailers were as high as we'd like to believe, there would be competitive gas stations springing up everywhere.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Cube Inmate

If profits for gasoline retailers were as high as we'd like to believe, there would be competitive gas stations springing up everywhere.

IIRC, it's not the stations that make money, but the oil companies and the refineries.

[Incinerator]

Just be glad we're not in Europe, I don't see how people can complain when a litre of gas is cheaper than a half-litre bottle of pop from the vending machine.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by ken0042

IIRC, it's not the stations that make money, but the oil companies and the refineries.

That is a big barrier to entry that's for sure. The individual gas stations don't make any money on gasoline sales but rather slurpie, snacks, and all the other convience store items.

[Ayrahb]

Originally Posted by SeeGeeWhy

Ayrahb, what do you do for a living? I find it quite interesting that you claim to have no positive impact on your life from the O&G industry in this city.

Non-profit.

[Bingo]

I'm with Cowboy guys ... there are some very logical economic pressures for gasoline prices and collusion has nothing to do with it.

Refinery capacity is the first hit.

Gasoline stocks are the second. I get market reports every week showing the 2007 N.A. gasoline stocks ENTERING driving season very close to where we've EXITED driving season the last three summers. That's trouble.

One could agrue that the boost to prices are pretty marginal given the situation at hand.

but then I come back to this ... I drive a HEMI laded RAM. The boost of 14 cents in the last week will cost me $11 bucks to fill. That just isn't that big of a deal for me.

Every week I need to buy gas. I need to have utilities flowing to my house and buy groceries. They all fluctuate.

[Kerplunk]

Originally Posted by SeeGeeWhy

Kerplunk, the part I out in bold.

Ayrahb, what do you do for a living? I find it quite interesting that you claim to have no positive impact on your life from the O&G industry in this city.

Well, which part, the assertion of gouging or the part where everyone will be happy? If your gonna make such witty comments at least try to back up your assertion.

[Bobblehead]

According to this article, gas has a very inelastic demand curve (at leas in the US, probably here as well):

Weekly gasoline demand in April increased as much as 1.9 percent over the same weeks in 2006, even as the average national price of a gallon of gasoline grew from $2.71 to $2.97 by the end of the month, according to Energy Information Administration data.

Only during the first week of May, when prices jumped to $3.05 a gallon, did demand for gasoline abate slightly — by about two-hundredths of a percent, EIA figures showed.

Experts disagree over how high prices have to rise before consumers are shocked into driving less — at least temporarily.

"We might actually see some reaction at $3.50 (a gallon)" nationally, said Larry Compeau, executive officer of the Society for Consumer Psychology and professor of marketing and consumer psychology at Clarkson University in Potsdam, N.Y.

Lars Perner, assistant professor of clinical marketing at the University of Southern California's business school, disagrees, saying the tipping point is more likely $4 a gallon.

[SeeGeeWhy]

Originally Posted by Ayrahb

Non-profit.

Who are your organization's largest donors?

[SeeGeeWhy]

Originally Posted by Kerplunk

Well, which part, the assertion of gouging or the part where everyone will be happy? If your gonna make such witty comments at least try to back up your assertion.

Both, I wasn't looking at that sentence as two seperate statements.

I don't agree that people can be gouged on a luxury item such as gasoline. The price is going to be whatever people are willing to pay for it.

It is quite unreasonable of "you" (the complaining customer) to expect the merchant of such a product to not take as much profit as he can if the demand for the product is there just because his customer feels entitled to it.

People will complain about gas prices so long as they feel entitled to gasoline and that they have no other options.

[Ayrahb]

Originally Posted by SeeGeeWhy

Who are your organization's largest donors?

I expected this question.

Total revenue for 2006 -- $6,579,866

Provincial Government -- 37%
Federal Government -- 31%
User Fees -- 21%
Municipal Government -- 6%
Other -- 5%

Total Donations -- $35,522

[Displaced Flames fan]

'Gas outs' have been circulating on the internet for years.

They are infinitely naive plans that have zero effect on gas prices or gas companies.

I don't know if this is the case in Canada, but if you choose to boycott say....Exxon stations in the US it doesn't mean that Exxon isn't selling gas....the gas marketed at any particular Exxon station may or may not have been refined by that company.

As Sylvanfan said...if you want to do something to make the oil companies take notice stop driving. For most people, that's not a realistic option.