What to do with Huberdeau?

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by boogerz

Huberdeau's ES ATOI this season is lower than his historical average, but his PP ATOI this year is in line with his PP ATOI in Florida.


Huska having confidence in Huberdeau isn't going to correct the obvious system issues (e.g. as identified by Sportsnet/Vanessa Kewzer) and underutilization of Huberdeau's strengths that are causing the current problems.

Ok.

I will place more faith in Hitchcock's assessment of what ails Huberdeau who had a really inciteful take and comes from years of experience dealing with underperforming players.

You take Vanessa Kewzer's analysis which was good but essentially said he needs to have D men join the rush with him so he can pass it back to them.

Systems could be changed to help him. But confidence is his key issue.

[Paulie Walnuts]

This is an epic disaster that I don't see anyone saw coming.

I don't think he has quit but something isn't working.

Outside of a trade I am not sure how he gets his confidence back.

[FlamesAddiction]

I don't disagree that playing him more could in theory be a way to helping him. It comes with risk though, as well, I am not sure how I would feel about being his line mates as part of that experiment.

Huberdeau is on pace for a -71. It is hard to describe just how bad that is. You would have to go back 30 years to the second year expansion Ottawa Senators (1993-94 season), just to find a player at -50. You'd have to go back to the 1980-81 season just to find a player with a -60 (Dave Babych - Winnipeg). You'd have to go back to the 1974-75 Capitals to find a worse +/- thank what Huberdeau is currently on pace for.

It's still early enough that he can bring that number up, but it could backfire substantially. If Huberdeau isn't contributing to the scoresheet, then he is liability. I know +/- isn't the end all, but when it is historically bad, that means something.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by calumniate

What's sad is he could learn something from Zary right now. Make smart, safe plays intermixed with high risk ones. All huberdeau does is high risk nonsense, unless it's a bump-back to the D.. but anyone can do that

Yeah, somehow that worked in Florida but its not working here. How can you expect it to work when every pass you make is through 3 or 4 opposition skaters?

[PuckSlap]

Take away his stapler and send him to the basement. Maybe then he'll finally burn this place to the ground.

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Goriders

So a no move clause doesn’t just cover other organizations? It also covers the Flames organization?

That doesn’t make any sense. The players have too much power in the league right now. The retirement contracts must have numerous teams handcuffed.

The teams sign the contracts. Players can only have power that teams willingly give them.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by lazypucker

In the real world, when you are underperforming at your job, you will be put to a "performance plan."

Huberdeau probably needs to put on one. Maybe have him repeatedly shoot at the net, make cross-ice pass, whatever. Hopefully it will help him

I don't know if that's applicable to the elite levels of anything. Having someone show up and do a good enough job, sure.

Asking a top level hedge fund manager who is having a bad run to make x% returns or x% of winning trades probably doesn't manifest money for the fund.

The elite get trusted or fired.

[GFG#1]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

See, this is what I'm talking about - it's more about putting blame on Huberdeau, which is all well and good - than finding an actual solution. You seriously think sitting him will make him better?

It doesn't matter how much he's paid. It doesn't matter if it's "on him". The goal is to make the team better and get more out of him. Sitting him won't make him better.

Correct it shouldn't matter how much he is getting paid; it is his results are what matter. Currently he is not getting any results, so why should he be gifted ice time/pp time based on his past performance. This isn't a slump its been longer than an entire season. The organization has been patient with him given him opportunities to work through it. Switched up linemates. The fact that he has 0 compatibility with anyone on the team is a him thing.

This is a results-based league and he is not helping the Flames get the desired result. (unless that is tanking).

If he is the worst player on the ice, he should be the one getting scratched whether he makes league minimum or 10.5 million. His salary should not dictate special treatment. unfortunately, the 10.5 mil price tag really hinders the team, but so does his play on the ice. So personally, I would give him a decreased role, followed by more benching if he isn't going and then press box him.

He needs to figure it out, the organization has done enough to try and help him get going, there is 0 reason they should be trading assets to try and bring someone in to help get him going. If he can't do it himself that is on him.

[dirk diggler]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

See, this is what I'm talking about - it's more about putting blame on Huberdeau, which is all well and good - than finding an actual solution. You seriously think sitting him will make him better?

It doesn't matter how much he's paid. It doesn't matter if it's "on him". The goal is to make the team better and get more out of him. Sitting him won't make him better.

fair enough, but playing him with all players on the team doesn't appear to work. i feel like the Flames have gone through every possible scenario. I am not alone in my thinking that i dont see him ever being good here, perhaps he pulls a Jeff Skinner and finds his game. not holding my breath

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dirk diggler

fair enough, but playing him with all players on the team doesn't appear to work. i feel like the Flames have gone through every possible scenario. I am not alone in my thinking that i dont see him ever being good here, perhaps he pulls a Jeff Skinner and finds his game. not holding my breath

So your answer is to throw up your hands and not even play him at all.

They haven't gone through every possible scenario at all. They just went back for one game to him with Backlund, which was actually a good combination last year (I forget who was RW).

The solution, though, likely isn't some magic combination that will flip a switch. Like Kypreos said, this is going to be a gradual getting better process that takes some time. Which the Flames happen to have, in spades.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GFG#1

Correct it shouldn't matter how much he is getting paid; it is his results are what matter. Currently he is not getting any results, so why should he be gifted ice time/pp time based on his past performance. This isn't a slump its been longer than an entire season. The organization has been patient with him given him opportunities to work through it. Switched up linemates. The fact that he has 0 compatibility with anyone on the team is a him thing.

This is a results-based league and he is not helping the Flames get the desired result. (unless that is tanking).

If he is the worst player on the ice, he should be the one getting scratched whether he makes league minimum or 10.5 million. His salary should not dictate special treatment. unfortunately, the 10.5 mil price tag really hinders the team, but so does his play on the ice. So personally, I would give him a decreased role, followed by more benching if he isn't going and then press box him.

He needs to figure it out, the organization has done enough to try and help him get going, there is 0 reason they should be trading assets to try and bring someone in to help get him going. If he can't do it himself that is on him.

Who cares who "it's on"? How does a player "figure it out" from the bench or press box? Name me a veteran player who got better by sitting.

BTW, the 10.5M is not affecting the team at all right now, if they are rebuilding. They don't have any big contacts to sign right now. In 4 years, maybe it becomes a factor and they have to deal with it.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Tkachuk was great in the net front as he could screen, was elite at tipping, or also could step out and drop down beside the net, to take a quick pass from Gaudreau and a quick touch pass to Lindholm for the one timer in the slot

Johnny and Tkachuk could work together and read the play and one another to decide on, and execute, this play quickly

Tkachuk still does this in Florida.

Huberdeau could be the Gaudreau in this case, but it was the Tkachuk role that created a lot of the success and although I’ve seen Backs try it a bit, Calgary hasn’t figure out who that person is and they aren’t particularly good at it


When Huberdeau said Lindholm would score because he was passing - well, Lindholm scored a lot on passes from Tkachuk in addition to Gaudreau

Yep and Tkachuk also had his patented between the legs move that had the respect from opposition Dmen. To me, Tkachuk drove the PP and Gaudreau while great on flanks, was at his best gaining the zone efficiently with possession and a quick set up. Without a question, losing those 2 hurt the PP in a big way.

Would love it if the Flames drafted someone who had a cannon from the flank who also has the vision and deft passing to thread the needle cross seam when lanes open or a power forward down low who can crash the net, tip pucks and has elite hands to one touch pass or score quickly on wrap arounds. Even just one guy like this could probably help transform the PP from the current #26th ranked PP that it currently is.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Yep and Tkachuk also had his patented between the legs move that had the respect from opposition Dmen. To me, Tkachuk drove the PP and Gaudreau while great on flanks, was at his best gaining the zone efficiently with possession and a quick set up. Without a question, losing those 2 hurt the PP in a big way.

Would love it if the Flames drafted someone who had a cannon from the flank who also has the vision and deft passing to thread the needle cross seam when lanes open or a power forward down low who can crash the net, tip pucks and has elite hands to one touch pass or score quickly on wrap arounds. Even just one guy like this could probably help transform the PP from the current #26th ranked PP that it currently is.

It ain't Ruzicka. I can see having a big guy on the PP (in front) but he's playing half wall.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by memphusk

It would actually be best to play him 24-25 minutes a night. The problem is you're taking minutes away from the kids that deserve it and work for it.

The real problem is that Huska has a responsibility to the rest of the roster. Huberdeau might make $10M+, but the other guys cover $70M+. So he can't just make this the Huberdeau renovation show, he'd alienate the rest of the roster who's playing better, that's not a good message to send to the rest of the team.

I also think the idea is just a fallacy to begin with. Huberdeau gets his 20+ shifts a night, if he's only good for a handful of those 20+ shifts a night, how does adding an additional 5 shifts really help his situation?

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It ain't Ruzicka. I can see having a big guy on the PP (in front) but he's playing half wall.

Yeah I don't know, take that up with Savard. This roster just doesn't have those kinds of guys we're looking for at the moment.

[dustygoon]

If we were battling for a playoff spot, on a great run of wins, or all other LW's are humming at their minutes and we don't want to tinker? Then maybe i get it.

But the team is floundering. This is the chance to run him out there over and over and over. PP1? Yep. Late in the game? Yep.

It's kid gloves yes. But teammates will understand why he gets more minutes.

There is a great player in there somewhere.

[GFG#1]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Who cares who "it's on"? How does a player "figure it out" from the bench or press box? Name me a veteran player who got better by sitting.

BTW, the 10.5M is not affecting the team at all right now, if they are rebuilding. They don't have any big contacts to sign right now. In 4 years, maybe it becomes a factor and they have to deal with it.

Why should he get special treatment because he is a veteran? Ice time should be performance based, he is underperforming so his ice time should be reduced. I agree the team should allow a player to work past a slump, but 90 games is no longer a slump.

Name me a rookie who got better by sitting. Why should young guys or lower paid vets be losing ice time to a guy getting paid way more but underperforming.

I agree it is tough to get into the game/groove when you are on the bench. but Should Other vets be sitting on the bench while watching HUberdeau underperform.

And lets be honest his 10.5 mil is hurting this team, the organization has not actually come out and said it is rebuilding, it is assumed based on performance that it is the road they may take, but it may just be a retool. Do you think if Huberdeau was on pace for 80-100 points, this organization would be talking about a rebuild/retool?

Until this team sells off all its assets for prospects and picks and is well under the cap his 10.5 mil is hurting this team. If he was only making 3 million and we had 7 million cap space, maybe we could make a trade for a player that could help get him going.

You think it doesn't irritate a guy like Lindholm knowing that he has been on a team friendly contract pretty much his entire time in Calgary watch this guy that had never played a game in the organization get handed a larger contract then he was/is being offered, for a lesser position.

His 10.5 million is definitely hurting this team. So I understand why they have tried doing everything they can to get him going. However, its been over 90 games its time to start thinking he is what he is and deal with it.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

The real problem is that Huska has a responsibility to the rest of the roster. Huberdeau might make $10M+, but the other guys cover $70M+. So he can't just make this the Huberdeau renovation show, he'd alienate the rest of the roster who's playing better, that's not a good message to send to the rest of the team.

I also think the idea is just a fallacy to begin with. Huberdeau gets his 20+ shifts a night, if he's only good for a handful of those 20+ shifts a night, how does adding an additional 5 shifts really help his situation?

I think the other guys would want Huberdeau going again, and it's not like big chunks of the roster are playing way better. Last game it was really the Kadri line and not much else. Lindholm was still bad. I didn't notice Ruzicka, Dube, Mangiapane (aside from the crosscheck) or Sharangovitch at all. It's just that the spotlight is on Huberdeau.

As for shifts - it's more time and situation. Let him play with Backlund for a while and see. He's on the second PP unit now, which is counterproductive. I think he's better than Ruzicka at the very least.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GFG#1

Why should he get special treatment because he is a veteran? Ice time should be performance based, he is underperforming so his ice time should be reduced. I agree the team should allow a player to work past a slump, but 90 games is no longer a slump.

Name me a rookie who got better by sitting. Why should young guys or lower paid vets be losing ice time to a guy getting paid way more but underperforming.

I agree it is tough to get into the game/groove when you are on the bench. but Should Other vets be sitting on the bench while watching HUberdeau underperform.

And lets be honest his 10.5 mil is hurting this team, the organization has not actually come out and said it is rebuilding, it is assumed based on performance that it is the road they may take, but it may just be a retool. Do you think if Huberdeau was on pace for 80-100 points, this organization would be talking about a rebuild/retool?

Until this team sells off all its assets for prospects and picks and is well under the cap his 10.5 mil is hurting this team. If he was only making 3 million and we had 7 million cap space, maybe we could make a trade for a player that could help get him going.

You think it doesn't irritate a guy like Lindholm knowing that he has been on a team friendly contract pretty much his entire time in Calgary watch this guy that had never played a game in the organization get handed a larger contract then he was/is being offered, for a lesser position.

His 10.5 million is definitely hurting this team. So I understand why they have tried doing everything they can to get him going. However, its been over 90 games its time to start thinking he is what he is and deal with it.

It's not "special treatment", it's what works to improve players. Kids learn by going upstairs and having a look sometimes. Not vets.

As for his contract, who did you have in mind that they are "going out and getting"? They may not say "rebuild" but they are actively marketing Lindholm, Hanifin, Zadorov and Tanev. That's rebuilding.

[Saqe]

Give him 25min per when the team is eliminated from the playoffs, how ever small the of chance making it is. Now it is all about winning for Huska, ice the best team. And it wouldn't even be fair for the other guys to make everything revolve around Huberdeau right now. What kind of message that would send to the guys.