The Hubble Telescope of Inner Space . . . watching the birth of the universe

[Cowperson]

Starting sometime next summer if all goes to plan, subatomic particles will begin shooting around a 17-mile underground ring stretching from the European Center for Nuclear Research, or Cern, near Geneva, into France and back again — luckily without having to submit to customs inspections.

Crashing together in the bowels of Atlas and similar contraptions spaced around the ring, the particles will produce tiny fireballs of primordial energy, recreating conditions that last prevailed when the universe was less than a trillionth of a second old.

The day it turns on will be a moment of truth for Cern, which has spent 13 years building the collider, and for the world’s physicists, who have staked their credibility and their careers, not to mention all those billions of dollars, on the conviction that they are within touching distance of fundamental discoveries about the universe. If they fail to see something new, experts agree, it could be a long time, if ever, before giant particle accelerators are built on Earth again, ringing down the curtain on at least one aspect of the age-old quest to understand what the world is made of and how it works.

“If you see nothing,” said a Cern physicist, John Ellis, “in some sense then, we theorists have been talking rubbish for the last 35 years.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/15/sc...pc&oref=slogin

Will they see the face of God?

Cowperson

[TheyCallMeBruce]

I don't really know a whole lot about Quantum physics, but isn't this the one people are concern about regarding stranglets appearing and eating up the planet? or I should say, turning the planet into strange matter?

If I recall correctly, it can cause negatively charged strange matter to appear. I think physicist call it Ice 9 type transition or something like that.

[photon]

Yeah there's a bunch of doomsday theories surrounding this, as there typically are.

No risk, no reward. The risks are pretty low, there are plenty of events that generate far more energy out there that we've observed. But until we try we really don't know.

Then again, maybe that's why we don't see any advanced civilizations out there.. they hit this stage, turn on their own LHC, and *blip* gone.

[photon]

Finished reading it now, cool article!

Depressing though, I should be one of those people helping make and run that thing. Maybe in another life...

[Cowperson]

So . . . . . if we do get into a position where we can not only place ourselves at the moment of the Big Bang, but also see through it to the other side . . . . . is that the end of God?

Proof that God doesn't exist?

Cowperson

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

So . . . . . if we do get into a position where we can not only place ourselves at the moment of the Big Bang, but also see through it to the other side . . . . . is that the end of God?

Proof that God doesn't exist?

Cowperson

Two different things in my book. One event is happening and we are experiencing through our outer senses the other is happening inside me.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Two different things in my book. One event is happening and we are experiencing through our outer senses the other is happening inside me.

I think it will be an interesting question . . . .

I would describe myself as agnostic, interested in the debate but not particularly swayed either way.

There's nothing God-like happening inside me and I think organized religion is mostly a crock of contrived crap - yet I was fairly pushy in ensuring my father was properly read over and was buried in a church cemetary next to his parents and sister.

I would hold out hope that maybe God set off the big bang, letting the rest of it take its natural, evolutionary course.

But . . . . if we can see through the Big Bang to the other side and explain everything from a natural point of view . . . . . well then, it seems to me that would be a different kettle of fish.

But, that's just me. And you're you.

Cowperson

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

I think it will be an interesting question . . . .

I would describe myself as agnostic, interested in the debate but not particularly swayed either way.

There's nothing God-like happening inside me and I think organized religion is mostly a crock of contrived crap - yet I was fairly pushy in ensuring my father was properly read over and was buried in a church cemetary next to his parents and sister.

I would hold out hope that maybe God set off the big bang, letting the rest of it take its natural, evolutionary course.

But . . . . if we can see through the Big Bang to the other side and explain everything from a natural point of view . . . . . well then, it seems to me that would be a different kettle of fish.

But, that's just me. And you're you.

Cowperson

To me, everyone who is a living breathing human being has something special happening inside them. Call it god-like or whatever, it's a matter of being aware of it.

I agree, it's going to be interesting if we see how it all started. May change a few of my ideas and a few misconceptions but the experiences are still seperate.

[TheyCallMeBruce]

I'm more concern about the strange matter devouring us all.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

I think it will be an interesting question . . . .

I would describe myself as agnostic, interested in the debate but not particularly swayed either way.

There's nothing God-like happening inside me and I think organized religion is mostly a crock of contrived crap - yet I was fairly pushy in ensuring my father was properly read over and was buried in a church cemetary next to his parents and sister.

I would hold out hope that maybe God set off the big bang, letting the rest of it take its natural, evolutionary course.

But . . . . if we can see through the Big Bang to the other side and explain everything from a natural point of view . . . . . well then, it seems to me that would be a different kettle of fish.

But, that's just me. And you're you.

Cowperson

So if we can peer through the window of the Big Bang and see what happened before it, why does that 'end' the notion of God? There are still big questions about, where it all came from, what set it all in motion, what set the ground rules?

All those wing-nuts like Cameron who think the Flintstones are a documentary will bury their head furhter up their asses but who cares...

[photon]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

So . . . . . if we do get into a position where we can not only place ourselves at the moment of the Big Bang, but also see through it to the other side . . . . . is that the end of God?

Proof that God doesn't exist?

Cowperson

What created the other side?

Originally Posted by Vulcan

To me, everyone who is a living breathing human being has something special happening inside them. Call it god-like or whatever, it's a matter of being aware of it.

Except that if everyone has something special happening in them, then it isn't special it's normal.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by photon

What created the other side?



Except that if everyone has something special happening in them, then it isn't special it's normal.

Yeah, you can say it's normal but few seem to be aware of this experience.

[Super-Rye]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

So . . . . . if we do get into a position where we can not only place ourselves at the moment of the Big Bang, but also see through it to the other side . . . . . is that the end of God?

Proof that God doesn't exist?

Cowperson

No but the southern states will surely explode, along with anyone else who believes that God created the world in 7 days. It will not be fun listening to them banter about how the telescope is wrong. :P

[skins]

I very interesting read. thanks for the post cowperson. there was a lot of thick science in that article, but it was still facinating.


what I would like to know is, how do they know they're accurately recreating what the universe was like when it was one trillionth of a second old? does anyone have any good resources regarding this?

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by skins

I very interesting read. thanks for the post cowperson. there was a lot of thick science in that article, but it was still facinating.


what I would like to know is, how do they know they're accurately recreating what the universe was like when it was one trillionth of a second old? does anyone have any good resources regarding this?

They don't know, but they've got a darn good theory.
One that this type of experiment is usefull in proving/disproving.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by skins

I very interesting read. thanks for the post cowperson. there was a lot of thick science in that article, but it was still facinating.


what I would like to know is, how do they know they're accurately recreating what the universe was like when it was one trillionth of a second old? does anyone have any good resources regarding this?

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/hawking/univ...tml/infla.html

The big-bang theory does a remarkable job of describing the universe we see today: It explains the expansion of the universe, predicts the correct abundances of hydrogen and helium (the most common elements in the universe), and accounts for the cosmic background radiation. Few scientists today doubt its validity.

Despite its successes, the standard big-bang theory was too simple to be complete . . .

In 1980, the American physicist Alan Guth devised a way around these problems. He theorized that shortly after the Big Bang (10-35 seconds, or 100 billion trillion trillionths of a second, to be exact), the universe underwent a period of extraordinarily rapid expansion, inflating its size by a factor of 10[50].


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang

The Mysteries of Deep Space Timeline
http://www.pbs.org/deepspace/timeline/


http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/seuforum/bigbanglanding.htm

The First Few Microseconds
In recent experiments, physicists have replicated conditions of the infant universe--with startling results
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?cha...7F83414B7F014D

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by photon

What created the other side?

If you can see what created this side, you will likely understand what created the other side and the repetition of all the other side's before it.

Maybe.

A brain teaser that can leave people lying awake at night staring at the ceiling is: "What lies beyond the known universe."

So what if there was a big bang. That only created the universe you know, something demonstrateably expanding into . . . . . nothing? Or something? Are there other universe's, expanding bubbles, within this plane of existence? Are their other bubbles that came into existence after other big bangs and do those other big bangs have other sides?

What lies beyond infinity? And what came before infinity? How did infinity come into being?

Cowperson

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

If you can see what created this side, you will likely understand what created the other side and the repetition of all the other side's before it.

Maybe.

A brain teaser that can leave people lying awake at night staring at the ceiling is: "What lies beyond the known universe."

So what if there was a big bang. That only created the universe you know, something demonstrateably expanding into . . . . . nothing? Or something? Are there other universe's, expanding bubbles, within this plane of existence? Are their other bubbles that came into existence after other big bangs and do those other big bangs have other sides?

What lies beyond infinity? And what came before infinity? How did infinity come into being?

Cowperson

To be frank, I'm pretty happy just accepting that I have a limited organic processor for a brain, limited time and limited information such that I will probably never know or understand such things. I would be fascinated to know more, but as far as I'm concerned it's good enough for me as long as the universe goes on unexplainably expanding for the blip in it's existence that I'm around for.

[evman150]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

So if we can peer through the window of the Big Bang and see what happened before it, why does that 'end' the notion of God? There are still big questions about, where it all came from, what set it all in motion, what set the ground rules?

"God is an invention of Man. So the nature of God is a shallow mystery. The deep mystery is the nature of Man."

-Nanrei Kobori, (late) Abbot of the Temple of the Shining Dragon, Kyoto

[evman150]

A brain teaser that can leave people lying awake at night staring at the ceiling is: "What lies beyond the known universe."

"What lies outside this box inside this box?"

This is the same question. Non-sensical, a category error.

So what if there was a big bang. That only created the universe you know, something demonstrateably expanding into . . . . . nothing? Or something?

The universe expands into itself. It does not expand into nothing, it does not expand into "something" (in the sense you are meaning). That is to say there is no "ether" out there the universe is expanding into.

Are there other universe's, expanding bubbles, within this plane of existence? Are their other bubbles that came into existence after other big bangs and do those other big bangs have other sides?

Maybe. But there is a grand total of zero evidence to support this notion. If there were other universes would they not affect each other causally? Maybe not? I don't know. But it's not really productive speculating about things we have no hope of demonstrating. Interesting to think about (not unlike the notion of infinite progression and regression of universes/elementary particles), but pretty useless to talk about. All you can really say is "Theory A", "interesting theory, any proof?", "no", "oh".

What lies beyond infinity? And what came before infinity? How did infinity come into being?

There is no infinity spatially. We live in a finite universe. The other two questions are confusing.