Israel declares war on Hamas

[WCW Nitro]

A recent nterview in the New Yorker with an Israeli settler and what they want, very dangerous and the attitude is becoming more and more part of the official Israel position. This hyper focus on Hamas and the notion that if it is gone peace will follow is false.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and...-bank-settlers

"Weiss is a neighbor and an ally of Bezalel Smotrich, the extremist minister of finance, who has said that the Palestinian people do not exist and that Palestinian communities need to be erased."


"In Israel, there’s a lot of support for settlements, and this is why there have been right-wing governments for so many years. The world, especially the United States, thinks there is an option for a Palestinian state, and, if we continue to build communities, then we block the option for a Palestinian state. We want to close the option for a Palestinian state, and the world wants to leave the option open. "

[activeStick]

I thought this was an SNL skit at first.... They can't possibly think this is believable, right?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1723674305995620570

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Leondros

Raping, parading naked women in the streets, killing families infront of one another. If you can’t differentiate between the two, I’m calling you a monster.

Oooh. We're into name calling now.

Slaughtering children.
Allowing newborns to die as hospitals are destroyed.
Wiping out whole families.

They're ALL monstrous acts.

But hey if you want the Hamas' murders were worse than Israels ones you have it.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Do you consider all of the dozen or so wars going on today where civilians are being killed to be murderous, repulsive acts? Or is there something about this war that makes it stand out to you?

Yes I do.
Does that make these less repulsive acts?
Start a thread on them.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

What did he say that is wrong?

History has shown that violent people need to be brought to their knees in order to have peace, one example not talked about enough is the Empire of Japan, they marched thru China, Indonesia, Korean, Philippines, and Indochina killing upwards of 30 million people like savages on steroids, far more than the Nazis.

Today, the Japan is one of the most peaceful countries on earth.

This, along with the positive review of sending Native Americans to near extinction, are pretty gruesome to read.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by activeStick

I thought this was an SNL skit at first.... They can't possibly think this is believable, right?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1723674305995620570

I don't know if it is true or not, but it isn't that far fetched. Palestinian Arabs supported and were supported by the Nazis in the 1930s and 1940s.

The Palestinian leader Amin al-Husseini visited Hitler, established himself in Nazi Germany, visited death camps, and wrote in his memoirs that he was impressed with the camps, especially the efficiency of the crematoriums. He had hoped to set up similar camps in his land. He continues to be a historical leader that many Palestinians look up to. He also started collaborating with Nazis before WW2 started in a failed plot to poison the drinking water of Tel Aviv. He may not have been an official member of the Nazi party, but he bought into the ideology and imported it to Palestine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husseini

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operat...tory_Palestine)

[Hey Connor, It's Mess]

Now-deleted WP comic.

Spoiler!

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

This, along with the positive review of sending Native Americans to near extinction, are pretty gruesome to read.

There was not a positive review, it was simply a list of conflicts that ended in the complete eradication of one sides military presence. The result of that was peace in the four examples given. What happened to the indigenous population of America was genocide, bit it doesn't make the point being made less true. It's what the strategy from the Israeli side is based on, so it's important to keep that front and center.

[WCW Nitro]

Israeli officials: we consider Hamas an asset in the prevention of a Palestinian state.

Some people: this is all the fault of Hamas, if they get defeated we can have peace

[Leondros]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Oooh. We're into name calling now.

Slaughtering children.
Allowing newborns to die as hospitals are destroyed.
Wiping out whole families.

They're ALL monstrous acts.

But hey if you want the Hamas' murders were worse than Israels ones you have it.

Yes, that’s exactly what i’m saying. The October 7th attacks were pretty high on the disgusting scale. Now if you followed my posts at all in the thread, I have been very clear on Israel needing to stop bombing civilians full stop.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

There was not a positive review, it was simply a list of conflicts that ended in the complete eradication of one sides military presence. The result of that was peace in the four examples given. What happened to the indigenous population of America was genocide, bit it doesn't make the point being made less true. It's what the strategy from the Israeli side is based on, so it's important to keep that front and center.

A couple of points:


- If I was defending Israel's actions as that poster has tended to do, I would not use an example that resulted in genocide. That's just me. But as you said, his or her mileage may vary.



- I would really challenge your view of the word 'peace' in this context. Yes, technically there would be no more war between two opposing sides. But morally that's not any kind of 'peace'

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

This, along with the positive review of sending Native Americans to near extinction, are pretty gruesome to read.

Yup, war is ugly and cruel, it's like evolution...survival of the fittest

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Yup, war is ugly and cruel, it's like evolution...survival of the fittest

Cool.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Leondros

Yes, that’s exactly what i’m saying. The October 7th attacks were pretty high on the disgusting scale. Now if you followed my posts at all in the thread, I have been very clear on Israel needing to stop bombing civilians full stop.

Yes they were pretty high on the disgusting scale.
And so is the mass slaughter of children. I believe we're on unprecedented levels. Something like children deaths in the last month equating to deaths in all wars over the last 4 years.

But you want to be all morally righteous because I find them BOTH equally disgusting and evil and cruel you have at it.

What a stupid conversation.
Me. I find both acts equally repulsive and evil.
You. The Hamas attacks were more disgusting. If you can't agree with that you're a monster. Ffs.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

A couple of points:


- If I was defending Israel's actions as that poster has tended to do, I would not use an example that resulted in genocide. That's just me. But as you said, his or her mileage may vary.



- I would really challenge your view of the word 'peace' in this context. Yes, technically there would be no more war between two opposing sides. But morally that's not any kind of 'peace'

Morally every side of this is an absolute ####show.

I think that is the only reason that this is such a topic of discussion with very emotional sides to it. It's just that historically, before the internet, and certainly before the telegraph/telephone, a conflict like this would have been solved in only one way.

[Bagor]

The antisemitic WHO, UNFPA and UNICEF release a joint statement calling for the world to intervene.

12 November 2023, Cairo/Amman — The regional directors of UNFPA, UNICEF and WHO call for urgent international action to end the ongoing attacks on hospitals in Gaza.

We are horrified at the latest reports of attacks on and in the vicinity of Al-Shifa Hospital, Al-Rantissi Naser Paediatric Hospital, Al-Quds Hospital, and others in Gaza city and northern Gaza, killing many, including children. Intense hostilities surrounding several hospitals in northern Gaza are preventing safe access for health staff, the injured, and other patients.

Premature and new-born babies on life support are reportedly dying due to power, oxygen, and water cuts at Al-Shifa Hospital, while others are at risk. Staff across a number of hospitals are reporting lack of fuel, water and basic medical supplies, putting the lives of all patients at immediate risk.

Over the past 36 days, WHO has recorded at least 137 attacks on health care in Gaza, resulting in 521 deaths and 686 injuries, including 16 deaths and 38 injuries of health workers on duty.

Attacks on medical facilities and civilians are unacceptable and are a violation of International Humanitarian and Human Rights Law and Conventions. They cannot be condoned. The right to seek medical assistance, especially in times of crisis, should never be denies.

More than half of the hospitals in the Gaza Strip are closed. Those still functioning are under massive strain and can only provide very limited emergency services, lifesaving surgery and intensive care services. Shortages of water, food, and fuel are also threatening the wellbeing of thousands of displaced people, including women and children, who are sheltering in hospitals and their surrounds.

The world cannot stand silent while hospitals, which should be safe havens, are transformed into scenes of death, devastation, and despair. Decisive international action is needed now to secure an immediate humanitarian ceasefire and prevent further loss of life, and preserve what’s left of the health care system in Gaza. Unimpeded, safe and sustained access is needed now to provide fuel, medical supplies and water for these lifesaving services. The violence must end now

https://www.emro.who.int/media/news/...e-in-gaza.html

[Azure]

Perhaps the WHO, UNFPA and UNICEF should have done more to prevent Hamas from turning health care facilities into military bases, outputs, etc therefore making them military targets.

"Hamas needs to be eradicated."
"Hamas uses hospitals as military bases, and civilians as human shields."

Suddenly its crickets.

"The world cannot stand silent."

Well except when Syria kills Palestinians. Then nobody actually gives a ####.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Bagor

The antisemitic WHO, UNFPA and UNICEF release a joint statement calling for the world to intervene.


https://www.emro.who.int/media/news/...e-in-gaza.html

Originally Posted by Azure

Perhaps the WHO, UNFPA and UNICEF should have done more to prevent Hamas from turning health care facilities into military bases, outputs, etc therefore making them military targets.

"Hamas needs to be eradicated."
"Hamas uses hospitals as military bases, and civilians as human shields."

Suddenly its crickets.

"The world cannot stand silent."

Well except when Syria kills Palestinians. Then nobody actually gives a ####.

Or maybe, and please follow along closely, they aren't antisemitic.

[Azure]

That is neither here nor there.

These world organizations suddenly now care about what is happening, but when Hamas was funneling hundreds of millions of dollars of THEIR money into setting up resources to attack Israel, they didn't stop the aid and demand accountability.

The entire thing is a joke, honestly. They don't care, have never cared, and will never care.

The people on the ground care, but these elitist #######s have been sitting silent for years while Hamas has gotten rich living the good life in Qatar.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Azure

That is neither here nor there.

These world organizations suddenly now care about what is happening, but when Hamas was funneling hundreds of millions of dollars of THEIR money into setting up resources to attack Israel, they didn't stop the aid and demand accountability.

The entire thing is a joke, honestly. They don't care, have never cared, and will never care.

The people on the ground care, but these elitist #######s have been sitting silent for years while Hamas has gotten rich living the good life in Qatar.

They actually haven’t been, but you only care now, so you’re projecting that problem onto them.

It’s hard to tell if you actually care now, since it feels like you would be more informed on the subject if you actually did.