Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Slava

lol, wut? I think this is wishful thinking because you look at some of the actions taken by conservatives in this country and you can’t possibly push that as inclusive. Of course, this is at the provincial level because the federal CPC doesn’t have power, but these actual policies are not inclusive.

Look at Saskatchewan making it so that parents have to approve a name or pronouns for their children (same thing has been put forward in Alberta). If you have no exposure to this, it seems like “what’s the big deal?” I’m sure. Unfortunately though, it’s a huge deal. I know kids in this exact position where they want to go by a different name or pronouns and the parents simply will not accept it. It impacts everything those kids want to do, and it’s literally their identity. And why…because dad doesn’t want to tell his buddies that his son is now his daughter? What do they think happens when those kids are 18 and can not only do these things, but have years of resentment pent up? It’s a bad situation. And explain to me how this is inclusive?

And then you have the CPC MPs who just a couple years ago voted against outlawing therapy to convert LGBTQ people. It’s absolutely not inclusive.

I get that things are changing, and these are the people who are dragged kicking and screaming the entire way. I do hope that eventually they’re basically forced into doing the right thing, but I don’t consider that inclusive.

Knowing your views in general from your post history, this post really crystallizes that they seem to be highly aligned to our former "progressive conservative" ideology.

It's such a shame this is utterly dying off, because in hindsight this was a great vehicle to continued progress, although the pace may have been slower than some wished for.

I myself have voted for almost every party under the sun at some point (despite being a bit of a raging socialist at heart), but there is no chance in hell any of the current incarnations of conservative parties stand a chance at getting my vote.

[Slava]

^ I think that nails it though. Economically, and “non-corruptly”, I could vote conservative. But the social policy dinosaurs lurking in the background make it a non-starter. And they’re not hiding it anymore! Years ago it was this “hidden agenda”. Well, have a look at some of the actors and their actual policies, and it’s not hidden. This is the wedge they’re driving.

[PepsiFree]

I’m actually surprised someone tried to suggest the Conservative party is getting more inclusive/progressive.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Slava

^ I think that nails it though. Economically, and “non-corruptly”, I could vote conservative. But the social policy dinosaurs lurking in the background make it a non-starter. And they’re not hiding it anymore! Years ago it was this “hidden agenda”. Well, have a look at some of the actors and their actual policies, and it’s not hidden. This is the wedge they’re driving.

I blame Trump (first among others) for emboldening people to say and do whatever the f they like. They are no longer afraid to say the quiet parts out loud. We can assume it’s still just talk at our peril. Smith, for example, is doing exactly what she said she would in those ‘grainy videos’. Poilievre has not been quite so open but I believe he’s equally committed to acting on his beliefs.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by edslunch

I blame Trump (first among others) for emboldening people to say and do whatever the f they like. They are no longer afraid to say the quiet parts out loud. We can assume it’s still just talk at our peril. Smith, for example, is doing exactly what she said she would in those ‘grainy videos’. Poilievre has not been quite so open but I believe he’s equally committed to acting on his beliefs.

What “beliefs” will PP be acting on?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

What “beliefs” will PP be acting on?

Well he’s made comments like this.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1722684149654335545

[Fuzz]

Pumping trucker tires.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Slava

Economically, and “non-corruptly”, I could vote conservative.

Classic

[Calgary '89]

Originally Posted by Slava

lol, wut? I think this is wishful thinking because you look at some of the actions taken by conservatives in this country and you can’t possibly push that as inclusive. Of course, this is at the provincial level because the federal CPC doesn’t have power, but these actual policies are not inclusive.

Look at Saskatchewan making it so that parents have to approve a name or pronouns for their children (same thing has been put forward in Alberta). If you have no exposure to this, it seems like “what’s the big deal?” I’m sure. Unfortunately though, it’s a huge deal. I know kids in this exact position where they want to go by a different name or pronouns and the parents simply will not accept it. It impacts everything those kids want to do, and it’s literally their identity. And why…because dad doesn’t want to tell his buddies that his son is now his daughter? What do they think happens when those kids are 18 and can not only do these things, but have years of resentment pent up? It’s a bad situation. And explain to me how this is inclusive?

I’d be glad to explain it if that’s what I said. I’d invite you to read my post again and identify where I call the Conservative Party inclusive. I didn’t.
What I said is that the left bangs the inclusivity drum and makes noise about it but are notoriously more and more exclusive with who’s welcome in their circles. This doesn’t mean conservatives are inclusive, so that has to be said to not derail the conversation.

[Calgary '89]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Can you explain this in a way that an actual thing is being discussed and not just random words? Honestly, I have zero idea what you mean. And I am curious.

Big tent is a term used in politics to describe a catch all party who attracts all different belief systems. There’s probably 1000 websites to read more about it but here’s the plain and simple one:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_...20towards%20it.

If you find more worth sharing by all mean please do.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Calgary '89

I’d be glad to explain it if that’s what I said. I’d invite you to read my post again and identify where I call the Conservative Party inclusive. I didn’t.
What I said is that the left bangs the inclusivity drum and makes noise about it but are notoriously more and more exclusive with who’s welcome in their circles. This doesn’t mean conservatives are inclusive, so that has to be said to not derail the conversation.

Who is being excluded? What types of people are not welcome? Which views are not accepted that should be? Genuinely curious what you are getting at.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Who is being excluded? What types of people are not welcome? Which views are not accepted that should be? Genuinely curious what you are getting at.

Not catering to bigoted trash = exclusive

[Calgary '89]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Not catering to bigoted trash = exclusive

Hahahaha case in point!!! Thanks man!

The fact some of us think we’re so much more enlightened than some and therefore they should be labelled as trash or rednecks or backward and treated accordingly is not right man.

If you knew me you’d know that my biggest pet peeve is human stupidity and it drives me up a wall often. That doesn’t give me any moral high ground and definitely doesn’t give me the right to treat people like crap because their views are far from mine.

The most recent example was the trucker convoy who Trudeau called a group of people with unacceptable views and that as a society we need to consider whether they should be tolerated.
The words sound innocuous but it’s a shocking thing for a head of state to say.

I don’t care how educated or privileged any of us are, everyone deserves their voice to be heard even if it sounds like garbage to us.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Calgary '89

Big tent is a term used in politics to describe a catch all party who attracts all different belief systems. There’s probably 1000 websites to read more about it but here’s the plain and simple one:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_...20towards%20it.

If you find more worth sharing by all mean please do.

You’re really good at speaking like a current politician.

Can you demonstrate your claim for me? I’m not asking what big tent means, I don’t understand how you say they Liberal party is too focused on including everyone, but they also exclude everyone, so they should be more like the Conservative Party who includes everyone? That’s the claim?

I’m honestly teasing it out because I’m reading it as “I don’t care if people other than me are openly excluded by the party, because I’m not”. So I’m pushing because applying that to the post I originally quoted didn’t seem fair.

[Calgary '89]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

You’re really good at speaking like a current politician.

Can you demonstrate your claim for me? I’m not asking what big tent means, I don’t understand how you say they Liberal party is too focused on including everyone, but they also exclude everyone, so they should be more like the Conservative Party who includes everyone? That’s the claim?

I’m honestly teasing it out because I’m reading it as “I don’t care if people other than me are openly excluded by the party, because I’m not”. So I’m pushing because applying that to the post I originally quoted didn’t seem fair.

Lol I don't agree, but thanks I guess?

I didn't and wouldn't say the liberal party is focused on including everybody under their tent, I think that's their talking point though. They talk a lot about social issues and the importance of inclusivity and then go and call supporters of the trucker convoy nazis. The current liberal party seems to be subscribed to the idea that we're all in identity groups and I think that's a big problem cuz history shows that humans in identity groups don't ever seem to get along or respect each other. I'd fire off a few examples but I think you and everyone here is smart enough to recognize the atrocities that have happened in the past.

As for being more like the conservative party? Nope I wouldn't say that either as they are much different however these current liberals did open up some room in the middle of the spectrum and Poilievre is happy to take it. Doing so has apparently opened up space on the right of him and that's where Max Bernier and the PPC comes in. Hardly a political party but they can't be ignored either.

As for me feeling excluded by the liberals, I probably would be because I'm not big believer in being orthodox with my politics.

I encourage disagreement followed by debate, as you can likely tell

[Fuzz]

Trucker convoy supporters should not be catered to by any party.



So beyond the extreme selfish folk, who else is the Liberal party excluding? What types of people are not welcome?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Calgary '89

I’d be glad to explain it if that’s what I said. I’d invite you to read my post again and identify where I call the Conservative Party inclusive. I didn’t.
What I said is that the left bangs the inclusivity drum and makes noise about it but are notoriously more and more exclusive with who’s welcome in their circles. This doesn’t mean conservatives are inclusive, so that has to be said to not derail the conversation.

Oh I see. The Liberals said mean things about the truckers convoy, so they’re no inclusive…that’s the point you’re making?

I mean you did try to squeeze in that conservatives are more accepting now and implied that they’re more accepting. I suppose you didn’t flat out say they’re inclusive though, if you want to be pedantic about it.

[Calgary '89]

Originally Posted by Slava

Oh I see. The Liberals said mean things about the truckers convoy, so they’re no inclusive…that’s the point you’re making?

I mean you did try to squeeze in that conservatives are more accepting now and implied that they’re more accepting. I suppose you didn’t flat out say they’re inclusive though, if you want to be pedantic about it.

Loool man.. I'm honestly not trying to change your politics, or prove you wrong.

The liberals didn't say mean things about the trucker convoy, they labelled an entire chunk of the population as 'unacceptable' and questioned openly if they should be tolerated. There's a very big difference and it's not progressive at all.

I'm not squeezing anything in, I'm saying this current breed of conservatives is not like our dads conservatives. Times have changed and they're now more attractive to the middle.

Anyone who thinks the truckers are ***holes, that's fine. But they're also voters and they're Canadians like us. You can't censor or remove a group cuz you don't like or agree with them.

[Calgary '89]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Trucker convoy supporters should not be catered to by any party.



So beyond the extreme selfish folk, who else is the Liberal party excluding? What types of people are not welcome?

I refuse to think you're dumb and are just not getting me. Let's just agree to disagree and move on.

[Izzle]

Originally Posted by Calgary '89

I refuse to think you're dumb and are just not getting me. Let's just agree to disagree and move on.

Do you agree with the points made by the trucker convoy?