Israel declares war on Hamas

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Never said such a thing. I spoke to your behaviors and called you out on them, pointing out the damage your attitude and arguments could have on the feelings of others on this debate and the sides people are going to take. I've defended innocent Jews and Palestinians alike. Hamas needs to be eradicated but the state of Israel needs to be held accountable for their actions as well. Both sides are right in some regards, but both sides are so wrong. That doesn't make me an antisemite, it makes me someone who is concerned for innocent human life.

You cited Jewish history as “fairy tales” and got mad at someone with different views by saying I should watch what I say or more people will not like Jews. Way to sugar coat it tho jackass. I’ll take whatever ban, you are a POS. People in this thread can keep misusing the term genocide, only genocide in human history where the population quadruples. ####ing idiots, tchau

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

The only difference between what we did to the Tsuut'ina and what Israel are doing to Gaza is time and abject surrender, we did take all the good land, we did box them into a tiny crappy bit of land we didnt see any value in, we took away all of their rights, we stole their children, for most of Canada's history our natives had no rights to vote, to own property, we did everything and more Israel does, we even destroyed native culture and language, banned their religion.

The difference? we did it so brutally and completely that our natives surrendered utterly and so eventually From THE 1970'S OR SO we finally decided to be nice to them, this is Palestine's sadly inevitable future, and to be clear it is sad and also inevitable, in time they will give up and 50 or 100 years after that Israeli's will trust that surrender and start to treat Palestinians the way treat our natives, giving them rights and feeling a bit guilty but still keeping all of the wealth we stole from them, in a hundred years time when you attend a soccer game in Tel Aviv they may also repeat 'we give thanks to the Palestinian peoples who unseeded territory this game is played on'

Right, the difference is we're in 2023 and not in the past. If first nations started lobbing rockets at us it would be mind boggling since we're actively trying to atone and help them. We also aren't caging them in and they are welcome anywhere I'm welcome plus places I am not.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by zunie75

I agree, what's happening isn't genocide. That has been thrown around a lot and the definition twisted. But like you mentioned, Israel has to do better in protecting civilian life and ensuring aid is given.

Other wise they should receive no military aid, support or funding from the rest of the world. If they want to proceed like a unchecked militia, then go ahead but do it on your own and don't cry when the world continues to protest and call you out.

Side question that maybe some posters here can shed light on. If Israel knows that for instance Hamas is operating in tunnels under hospitals etc., how long has this been known and are more covert operations not being pursued? or is bombing the only option? What ever came from that other hospital being bombed, the one where Israel was first blamed but then said it was not them?

the 'bombed' hospital turned out to be a rocket fired from Gaza at Israel that failed and came down in the car park, it didnt harm the hospital at all but did kill a few dozen refugees sheltering in the car park.

As to the tunnels Israel has always known about them but up until the mass rape and killing of 1400 of its people wasnt prepared to do the damage to Gaza that getting rid of the tunnels required, the murders 4 weeks ago gave the Israeli's the need, anger and excuse depending on your view of things, why they bomb them rather than try and deal with them from the ground, that is simple, thousands of Israeli troops would be killed trying to enter the tunnels, bunker buster bombs are the only reasonable way to deal with them from a military point of view

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Right, the difference is we're in 2023 and not in the past. If first nations started lobbing rockets at us it would be mind boggling since we're actively trying to atone and help them. We also aren't caging them in and they are welcome anywhere I'm welcome plus places I am not.

I assume you mean other than part where we are keeping everything we stole from them, that your and my comfortable life is literally something we have as a result of the land we stole from our native population, oh and to be clear, there isnt a single Gazan that ever owned land in Israel, they are fighting for land their great Grandfathers owned who have been dead for decades

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I assume you mean other than part where we are keeping everything we stole from them, that your and my comfortable life is literally something we have as a result of the land we stole from our native population, oh and to be clear, there isnt a single Gazan that ever owned land in Israel, they are fighting for land their great Grandfathers owned who have been dead for decades

Meh, they were camping here. It's not like we bulldozed anything out of the way. It was one big giant overflow campground. I think we made it awesome and they're welcome to use all our cool ####. On top of that, they have every right we have, plus a bunch more. Our forefathers were jerks to them, sure, but us 2023ers are certainly not. We're awesome.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Right, the difference is we're in 2023 and not in the past. If first nations started lobbing rockets at us it would be mind boggling since we're actively trying to atone and help them. We also aren't caging them in and they are welcome anywhere I'm welcome plus places I am not.

examples?

[Leondros]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

examples?

I bet he’s going to say reservations.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Leondros

I bet he’s going to say reservations.

He would be wrong.

[Leondros]

Well you don’t exactly have free reign to drive through them and the reservation police do have the right to kick you out and not allow you entry…

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Leondros

Well you don’t exactly have free reign to drive through them and the reservation police do have the right to kick you out and not allow you entry…

I have been barred entry to 1 reserve, it was when there was an accident on Hwy 1, and everyone tried to cut through.

I didn't like it, thought it petty, but it would have been a #### tonne of cars.

I have been to reserves in the north and south and west of Alberta with no issues of significance.

Like really odd interactions a times, but never felt unsafe or unwanted

[2ArmBands]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I assume you mean other than part where we are keeping everything we stole from them, that your and my comfortable life is literally something we have as a result of the land we stole from our native population, oh and to be clear, there isnt a single Gazan that ever owned land in Israel, they are fighting for land their great Grandfathers owned who have been dead for decades

You seem to be pretty deeply riddled with guilt living here? Perhaps you should return to Europe where your forefathers would have "stole" the land from someone there too.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I have been barred entry to 1 reserve, it was when there was an accident on Hwy 1, and everyone tried to cut through.

I didn't like it, thought it petty, but it would have been a #### tonne of cars.

I have been to reserves in the north and south and west of Alberta with no issues of significance.

Like really odd interactions a times, but never felt unsafe or unwanted

I'm not scared lol. It's their territory and I respect that.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I'm not scared lol. It's their territory and I respect that.

they are welcome anywhere I'm welcome plus places I am not.

What places?

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

What places?

Reservations, guy.

Anybody can come from a reservation and buy or rent a house right beside mine. We'll become friends and have a great time.

I can't go open a store or rent a home on a reservation if I want. And that's fine, of course.

Why are you pretending that basic fact isn't a basic fact?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by 2ArmBands

You seem to be pretty deeply riddled with guilt living here? Perhaps you should return to Europe where your forefathers would have "stole" the land from someone there too.

No I'm not guilty, I accept that countries are built by one group of people effing over another group, that's how every country in the world is created, I am just pointing out the hypocrisy of expecting Israel to be different presumably because it's Jewish, they don't get to act like Christians and Muslims and keep the land they captured

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Meh, they were camping here. It's not like we bulldozed anything out of the way. It was one big giant overflow campground. I think we made it awesome and they're welcome to use all our cool ####. On top of that, they have every right we have, plus a bunch more. Our forefathers were jerks to them, sure, but us 2023ers are certainly not. We're awesome.

so your take is basically they weren't using the land in an advanced way like us white folks, they were pretty much children and we have improved their lives by taking care of them, I think there's a phrase for that, 'manifest destiny', of course you realise this is exactly the same excuse that alot of Israelis use today? 'we made the desert grow'

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I assume you mean other than part where we are keeping everything we stole from them, that your and my comfortable life is literally something we have as a result of the land we stole from our native population, oh and to be clear, there isnt a single Gazan that ever owned land in Israel, they are fighting for land their great Grandfathers owned who have been dead for decades

Many of them were settlers as well. Jews weren't the only ones settling there three generations ago. Arabs were immigrating to the area in large numbers for economic opportunities as Jewish investment in the area increased. Claiming that every person who declares as a Palestinian today is a descendant of 7th century Arab colonists isn't true.

The comparisons to North American colonialism are not applicable either. When European began colonizing the continent, there were literally no European people living here. In Israel, there were Jewish people still there when diaspora settlers began returning to their ancestral homeland.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

No I'm not guilty, I accept that countries are built by one group of people effing over another group, that's how every country in the world is created, I am just pointing out the hypocrisy of expecting Israel to be different presumably because it's Jewish, they don't get to act like Christians and Muslims and keep the land they captured

What's with this insulting fkn lunacy? Could you stop attributing anti-Semitism to people who are in no way anti-Semitic? It's ridiculous.

There are a bunch of us who don't want more bloodshed. I don't want Jews dying and I don't want Muslims dying. My short form for that is just calling them people, though. I don't want more people dying. I think both of their belief systems are stupid, tbh, but neither side deserves to die because they believe in hocus pocus.

Maybe you don't mind the Israeli army murdering Palestinian civilians because they're Muslims? Is that how your mind works? I wouldn't have ascribed that thought process to you, but now I'm starting to wonder.

If you don't want Israel to stop killing Palestinians then I truly believe you're a madman. Nobody should want more death and destruction right now. WTF man. It's insanity. Give your head a shake.

[JackJack]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Edit: I don’t argue with anti-semites like yourself Lanny, why is he invested? He is an academic? You think he is Jewish tho huh? Hilarious. Zero point with arguing with a terrorist sympathizer in Bagor and an anti semite in Lanny. See you guys at the Hamas, i mean Free Palestine protest. Maybe they are giving out free al-Jazeera subscriptions for both of you

I'm embarrassed for you.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

so your take is basically they weren't using the land in an advanced way like us white folks, they were pretty much children and we have improved their lives by taking care of them, I think there's a phrase for that, 'manifest destiny', of course you realise this is exactly the same excuse that alot of Israelis use today? 'we made the desert grow'

No, I'm not playing the game of going back in history forever and ever. Like, really, we all came from Africa. We spread out and that guy took land from that guy and then that guy took land from that guy and on and on it goes until we get to recorded history.

I'm living in 2023, so I'm operating as though I can't change the past. Because I can't. I would like to think those of us alive can change the present and future, though. So, IDK, STFU about the past and let's focus on the now. A thoughtful person would think that includes atoning for the past, but making the future better. A better future doesn't involve bombing civilians in Gaza, obviously. Unless you're a psycho.