Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[timun]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

What’s APEGA charge for a Koolaide refill these days? $400?

APEGA works very hard to protect all of this to keep their office of people administering the whole thing getting paid. If you actually lodge a professional complaint against someone you quickly find out that entire purpose is totally secondary and quite disappointing.

This sounded like a familiar retort...

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

Some credentials have a reasonable bar to validate. APEGA is a giant scam that seems more worried about revenues than anything else.

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

Ha, you just pointed out another way it sucks. Criticize APEGA for objectively sucking? Lose your license, can't work.

Meanwhile, filing a complaint against a member for failing to uphold the professional standards of practice is met with as much enthusiasm as a complaint about a dock worker to a mob affiliated union boss.

I'm a former member. I cancelled. Because they weren't providing any value for the eleventy hundred dollars they wanted from me every year to do... nothing. I also find their approach to immigrant engineers completely protectionist. The process is long, expensive, and acts like no one outside of Canada is capable of competent work.

That's WTF I'm even talking about.

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

I have a B.Sc. in Software Engineering and had my P. Eng. until I realized it's all a scam perpetuated by P. Eng. holders trying to hire/promote people who remind them of themselves.

APEGA can go pound sand. Software Engineering is definitely a form of engineering, and most of the best and brightest don't have engineering degrees, rather Computer Science, Math, Physics, and many others.

I'd argue most APEGA members are subject to almost zero scrutiny in their professions, and the amount that are stamping anything meaningful are a small minority.

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

I don't know. I'd need to see what that regulatory oversight looks like in practice. My assumption is likely we get something that hampers the local industry and makes us a less competitive jurisdiction, and I'd prefer the courts continue to take care of negligence causing damage.

APEGA provides no meaningful oversight of any P. Eng. besides the threat of taking their title away. It's completely reactive anyway. For software engineering, they aren't even that, as they don't have the expertise or facilities to take any action at all.

So we can:

1) Add regulation to software engineers, and kill off any startup investment in AB

2) Not allow the title of engineer for these jobs, and hope remote employers casting wide nets bother to deal with overhead to deal with the pedantry of our relatively insignificant jurisdiction to continue to provide high paying opportunities for Albertans

3) Be like the rest of the global workforce and allow the software engineer title to be used

Obviously you've got a bone to pick. A couple, really:

1) you're a software engineering grad who worked in "software engineering" and never used the licence to practice anyway, and

2) sounds like you reported someone for professional misconduct at some point, and your complaint went nowhere.

So, such as you see it, regulation of the profession is pointless and stupid.

That said, if you don't want to deal with the APEGA bull#### such as you see it, don't call yourself a ####ing engineer. Problem solved. If the regulation of the profession is as meaningless and stupid as you think it is, then it wouldn't matter if you can call yourself an "engineer" or not.

But reality is, it's a protected title that actually means a hell of a lot to you. Why do you want APEGA to "be like the rest of the global workforce and allow the software engineer title to be used" by unregulated professionals? You alluded to it in your complaint about the "pedantry of our relatively insignificant jurisdiction": "high-paying opportunities for Albertans".

And that's what it really comes down to: it's not just the case of "software engineer" being an "industry-standard title", it's that the broadly equivalent "programmer" or "software developer" isn't worth as much on your CV. And why is that the case? Because the title "engineer"—by virtue of being a regulated profession with exclusive title—is worth a lot more.

"Software engineers" want the title, with none of the regulation or responsibility. They want to ride the coattails of the engineers out there who do actually stamp stuff on the regular, who do have to explicitly take professional responsibility for what they do. Again: it's like chiropractors and naturopaths calling themselves "doctor".

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

What’s APEGA charge for a Koolaide refill these days? $400?

APEGA works very hard to protect all of this to keep their office of people administering the whole thing getting paid. If you actually lodge a professional complaint against someone you quickly find out that entire purpose is totally secondary and quite disappointing.

Remember that fella we knew who APPEGA (the real spelling) wouldn't grant the PEng because he didn't take Econ 209, even though he had a PhD in Engineering and was actually teaching that very Econ 209 at the time.

[Faust]

Alberta government planning to fire Chestermere council, administrators after months of defiance

https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...administrators

[Faust]

Language warning - cleaned up for posting here on Calgary Puck Forums but the link goes back to the original tweet



DKGray @TheRealDKGray

There have been meetings between the AESO and industry about changing the market.

The report I get back is that industry mother truckers are absolutely smug as truck, with this Government completely in the bag.

They’re not going to fix Economic Withholding.

If you voted UCP, you don’t get to say ANYTHING about electricity ever again.

Useless gullible mothertruckers.

https://x.com/therealdkgray/status/1...502877774?s=61

[Faust]

Max Fawcett

Last weekend's UCP convention buried Jason Kenney's pro-business, small-government conservative party squarely in the past. Now, it's an alliance of far-right grievance merchants, vaccine obsessives and social conservatives.

Buckle up. #cdnpoli #ableg

https://x.com/maxfawcett/status/1721...671960882?s=61

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by timun

So in summary, y'all have licences to practice but never use them because you get the benefits of being a licenced professional either way.

Why do your companies pay the dues if you never actually stamp anything? Because they want your clients to have the impression that you know what the #### you're doing.

This is at the heart of why the "tech" industry wants unfettered use of the title "software engineer": because they want to use the good-will associated with the professional title "engineer", to give the impression that they know what the #### they're doing, but they don't want people to have to actually go to the trouble of getting licenced. It's the exact same reason chiropractors and naturopaths lobbied to be able to use the title "doctor": to ride on the coattails of actual medical doctors to legitimize what they do.

I've known many engineers who never stamp anything and think APEGA's dues are a "scam", and to them I always say: if you "don't want to have to pay the twats" at APEGA for a licence, don't! See what happens. You'll quickly figure out the worth of the licence...

And that's why APEGA has to vociferously defend the exclusive use of "engineer". To let anyone use it just cheapens it, and the public will get bamboozled by unqualified people pretending they know WTF they're doing.

I can only speak for myself, but I pay the dues personally(self employed) even though I'm non practicing.

And since my primary business is the rental of accommodations for vacations, I never even use the signaling value.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by Faust

Language warning - cleaned up for posting here on Calgary Puck Forums but the link goes back to the original tweet



DKGray @TheRealDKGray

There have been meetings between the AESO and industry about changing the market.

The report I get back is that industry mother truckers are absolutely smug as truck, with this Government completely in the bag.

They’re not going to fix Economic Withholding.

If you voted UCP, you don’t get to say ANYTHING about electricity ever again.

Useless gullible mothertruckers.

https://x.com/therealdkgray/status/1...502877774?s=61

Prevent collusion, yes please. But they can’t remove economic withholding. Economic withholding in its simplest form is being allowed “hold out” for a price above your opex…ie make a profit to pay for the initial capex spent to build a facility…ie the entire foundation of our capitalist society.

That would be like saying your favourite restaurant shouldn’t be allowed to charge an ounce more than their cost of food, rent, employees, etc. If that were the case why would anyone open up a restaurant?

And the market structure is probably going to have to change to reliably manage all of the renewables. And to be clear, this would be a change away from the current market structure that blindly partisan anti-UCPers love to hate on.

This tweet is an uneducated take.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by timun

This sounded like a familiar retort...

Obviously you've got a bone to pick. A couple, really:

1) you're a software engineering grad who worked in "software engineering" and never used the licence to practice anyway, and

2) sounds like you reported someone for professional misconduct at some point, and your complaint went nowhere.

So, such as you see it, regulation of the profession is pointless and stupid.

That said, if you don't want to deal with the APEGA bull#### such as you see it, don't call yourself a ####ing engineer. Problem solved. If the regulation of the profession is as meaningless and stupid as you think it is, then it wouldn't matter if you can call yourself an "engineer" or not.

But reality is, it's a protected title that actually means a hell of a lot to you. Why do you want APEGA to "be like the rest of the global workforce and allow the software engineer title to be used" by unregulated professionals? You alluded to it in your complaint about the "pedantry of our relatively insignificant jurisdiction": "high-paying opportunities for Albertans".

And that's what it really comes down to: it's not just the case of "software engineer" being an "industry-standard title", it's that the broadly equivalent "programmer" or "software developer" isn't worth as much on your CV. And why is that the case? Because the title "engineer"—by virtue of being a regulated profession with exclusive title—is worth a lot more.

"Software engineers" want the title, with none of the regulation or responsibility. They want to ride the coattails of the engineers out there who do actually stamp stuff on the regular, who do have to explicitly take professional responsibility for what they do. Again: it's like chiropractors and naturopaths calling themselves "doctor".

Oh yay, I have an e-stalker. You're wrong on 1 and 2, although I have a software engineering degree and work extensively with software engineers. I'm a former member.

APEGA's "ownership" of the title engineer is exactly my problem.

Let's hit up the Wikipedia definition:

Engineers, as practitioners of engineering, are professionals who invent, design, analyze, build and test machines, complex systems, structures, gadgets and materials to fulfill functional objectives and requirements while considering the limitations imposed by practicality, regulation, safety and cost.

Are you telling me that people building novel software systems aren't doing exactly that?

So why aren't people who fit the exact definition of a word, allowed to be called that word without paying their yearly extortion fees? Because APEGA "owns" it.

Don't even get me started on the gross exploitation of immigrants by making it extremely expensive and arduous to get their credentials recognized.

All of this makes it look so trivial that they also charged me to join a mentorship program and attend an intro session to boost my "professional hours" even though they didn't have nearly enough mentees to match with all of the people they ripped off.

[FlameOn]

CBC obtains those leaked UCP plans to reorganize AHS that Notley received anonymously. Details include plans to sell off long term care facilities.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...ents-1.7021667

[wireframe]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

Oh yay, I have an e-stalker. You're wrong on 1 and 2, although I have a software engineering degree and work extensively with software engineers. I'm a former member.

APEGA's "ownership" of the title engineer is exactly my problem.

Let's hit up the Wikipedia definition:



Are you telling me that people building novel software systems aren't doing exactly that?

So why aren't people who fit the exact definition of a word, allowed to be called that word without paying their yearly extortion fees? Because APEGA "owns" it.

Don't even get me started on the gross exploitation of immigrants by making it extremely expensive and arduous to get their credentials recognized.

All of this makes it look so trivial that they also charged me to join a mentorship program and attend an intro session to boost my "professional hours" even though they didn't have nearly enough mentees to match with all of the people they ripped off.

This is a silly argument that doesn't belong in the Alberta politics thread. Apega and other professional associations were created by the federal government to regulate engineering because safety of the public is at stake. Then they expanded their own scope to include engineers who don't deal with public safety to build up their own power and revenue base. Now there's a whole industry of software engineers who scoff apega for good reason. That's the whole story. There's nothing to debate. Be a member if you want to but there's no requirement unless you're and engineer handling public safety, in which case it's legally required.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

CBC obtains those leaked UCP plans to reorganize AHS that Notley received anonymously. Details include plans to sell off long term care facilities.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...ents-1.7021667

Can't wait to buy them back from pals of the UCP for 2 dollars on the dollar!

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

Can't wait to buy them back from pals of the UCP for 2 dollars on the dollar!

That is their plan, make fake problems, complain, sell off and profit. Now they have added the step of buying it back to make even more money.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Faust

Max Fawcett

Last weekend's UCP convention buried Jason Kenney's pro-business, small-government conservative party squarely in the past. Now, it's an alliance of far-right grievance merchants, vaccine obsessives and social conservatives.

Buckle up. #cdnpoli #ableg

https://x.com/maxfawcett/status/1721...671960882?s=61

Wait. Is Kenney and his government now being portrayed as traditional old timey conservatism? Because when Smith came in, she kept all of the same nutjobs in cabinet that were there with Kenney. For example, Adriana Lagrange sole purpose is to create a wave of destruction so that any policy can be run through the smoking crater of a department and no one will bat an eye. First education, and now onto health.

Smith is just Kenney, only stupider.

[Mr.Coffee]

These guys are ####ed and are going to destroy Alberta. Pretty obvious. People will just move away. If you own property and it’s part of your retirement plan, I’d liquidate now.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

These guys are ####ed and are going to destroy Alberta. Pretty obvious. People will just move away. If you own property and it’s part of your retirement plan, I’d liquidate now.

Oh no the sky is falling, oh wait it isn’t. I’ll let it play out and judge her on the results we see. But it’s a lot more fun to complain before anything’s happened.

“ Analysis. In Q2 2023, net migration into Alberta was 45,297 compared to 25,465 in Q2 2022, an increase of 77.9%.Sep 27, 2023”

https://economicdashboard.alberta.ca...et-migration/#

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Oh no the sky is falling, oh wait it isn’t. I’ll let it play out and judge her on the results we see. But it’s a lot more fun to complain before anything’s happened.

“ Analysis. In Q2 2023, net migration into Alberta was 45,297 compared to 25,465 in Q2 2022, an increase of 77.9%.Sep 27, 2023”

https://economicdashboard.alberta.ca...et-migration/#

While we are waiting, perhaps you missed this, care to answer?

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Was consolidation a good idea in the 2000's, or do you think that was a major mistake by the PC's that just needs to be undone?

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

While we are waiting, perhaps you missed this, care to answer?

Who cares if it’s the right idea now.
Were you thinking playing 25 year old sound bites was a got ya moment?
Congrats.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Who cares if it’s the right idea now.
Were you thinking playing 25 year old sound bites was a got ya moment?
Congrats.

LOL, you are such a clown.

[Roughneck]

A centralized health service is no good, you know what’s better?

Four centralized health services, all with overlap and redundancies in procurement and delivery.

[rubecube]

I'm honestly not sure if centralized or decentralized is better. BC has regional health authorities and there are some benefits to them. However, there are also issues with things such as care standards, classification of facilities, etc., that vary between HAs and are very difficult to manage.

What I will say is that the UCP are the last bunch of buffoons I'd want handling decentralization.