Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Yoho]

Will be very interesting to see what numbers Freeland comes up with.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1719816660285321666

[Fuzz]

$1. It's $1. Now PFO.

[Johnny Makarov]

How about from AB's Finance Dept to Toews? < than 12% in 2019. But I'm sure it ballooned to 50% 4 years later due to the CPP investing in Crypto and olive branches! hahaha

A 2019 briefing note from Alberta's Finance Department to Travis Toews, who served as finance minister to both Smith and former premier Jason Kenney, estimated Alberta's slice of CPP assets at less than 12 per cent.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Will be very interesting to see what numbers Freeland comes up with.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1719816660285321666

The only number I'm interested in, is what figure makes this a complete non-starter. My guess is that the province is actually going to get something like 16%, which is about $67b, At that, this stupid idea is dead on the launchpad.

[belsarius]

So the calculation of how much the APP should get is probably based on contributions of employees while working in Alberta I assume. Considering the number of transit workers we had coming to Alberta during the big boom days and then returning home, the amount the APP receives isn't just for Albertans. I would think the APP would then be required to be giving pension amounts to people living out of province, which might end up being a considerable number.

Or does it get more nuanced where people who contributed while working in Alberta but now live in Ontario would have their amounts remain with CPP, or would their contributions switch to APP putting their benefits at risk? Or even worse, maintain the benefits of that person while having to increase rates of the APP on young workers to compensate.

Its kind of mind bottling.

[Wormius]

Whatever the number works out to, every individual who has ever paid taxes in Alberta should be afforded the opportunity to opt out and either take a payout or stay with the CPP if they want.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by Slava

The only number I'm interested in, is what figure makes this a complete non-starter. My guess is that the province is actually going to get something like 16%, which is about $67b, At that, this stupid idea is dead on the launchpad.

That’s roughly my guess also, but my worry is what fabricated number will the UCP try to feed us.

[Cappy]

It shouldnt even go this far. This plan is dead in the water.

Why do we continue to waste our own money having this government push this project on us

[Slava]

Originally Posted by belsarius

So the calculation of how much the APP should get is probably based on contributions of employees while working in Alberta I assume. Considering the number of transit workers we had coming to Alberta during the big boom days and then returning home, the amount the APP receives isn't just for Albertans. I would think the APP would then be required to be giving pension amounts to people living out of province, which might end up being a considerable number.

Or does it get more nuanced where people who contributed while working in Alberta but now live in Ontario would have their amounts remain with CPP, or would their contributions switch to APP putting their benefits at risk? Or even worse, maintain the benefits of that person while having to increase rates of the APP on young workers to compensate.

Its kind of mind bottling.

Well there are a couple different ways to calculate this, and the finance minister decides on how that will be done. I did laugh at the part of the letter that says Lifeworks calculates it as this, because that’s utterly meaningless. It’s basically trying to turn this into a negotiation and trying to get people anchored to a number. In reality, who cares? It’s irrelevant because the formula is chosen by the finance minister after they give notice and that’s the formula.

Honestly, if I’m Freeland, I tell them publicly to pound sand and that she’ll revisit this when they’re ready to give notice.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Cappy

It shouldnt even go this far. This plan is dead in the water.

Why do we continue to waste our own money having this government push this project on us

Becuase morons believed her lies, and because of them, she's the boss. She doesn't care if we don't like it, she's been pushing for it for a good 20 years, as I pointed out before the election to anyone who was paying attention. She's not going to admit she was wrong. So she needs to trick these same morons into thinking it will be good for them using our tax dollars. Thanks again, morons.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by belsarius

So the calculation of how much the APP should get is probably based on contributions of employees while working in Alberta I assume. Considering the number of transit workers we had coming to Alberta during the big boom days and then returning home, the amount the APP receives isn't just for Albertans. I would think the APP would then be required to be giving pension amounts to people living out of province, which might end up being a considerable number.

Or does it get more nuanced where people who contributed while working in Alberta but now live in Ontario would have their amounts remain with CPP, or would their contributions switch to APP putting their benefits at risk? Or even worse, maintain the benefits of that person while having to increase rates of the APP on young workers to compensate.

Its kind of mind bottling.

This is exactly what's on my mind.

If you take part of CPP's assets you'd have to assume CPP's liabilities as well - it wouldn't make any sense otherwise (not that this matters to UCP voters). And with how many people have paid in their working years in Alberta, and now live elsewhere (which is the whole reason for the massive number in the first place), you're now responsible for all those people in your new pension plan. That number might be staggering.

The only real way to do an APP is to opt out of CPP, and then start an APP from scratch with the AB government offering seed money. Then you'll get time in both APP and CPP and get two pensions during this one generation of transition.

It's not an implausible idea, but it's a completely different framing.

[Cycling76er]

I lived 38 years in Alberta and I've been in Manitoba for 9. What would happen to my contributions?

It's baffling how utterly ######ed the UCP are. People actually voted these clowns in.

[edslunch]

CPP is a pension plan not an investment account, so I think how much Alberta residents have contributed is not the primary question. I would think it's more like what is the net present value of pension obligations for current residents in each province, making appropriate assumptions about longevity and rates of return. First and foremost, each province should be allocated a portion of the CPP fund to cover these future obligations.Assuming there's money left over, divide it between the provinces based on how much their current residents contributed to CPP, regardless where they lived when they contributed.

Bottom line, make each pan member whole, and excess contributions follow the members.

[FlameOn]

I hate how Albertan tax dollars are being wasted in national wide propaganda campaigns on both the APP and stupid things like trying to export our nation topping cap less energy prices. Like this showed up on the TTC.

Spoiler!

[Mr.Coffee]

This is such a frustrating waste of time. Our society has so much #### that needs government intervention and addressing and they’re off wasting time and screwing around on stupid BS. Nobody cares about the CPP, there is no screaming problem with it. Go ####ing fix healthcare that’s burning to the ground or educate people better. Particularly in rural areas. Clear there’s a lack of resources at play here in key areas.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

This is such a frustrating waste of time. Our society has so much #### that needs government intervention and addressing and they’re off wasting time and screwing around on stupid BS. Nobody cares about the CPP, there is no screaming problem with it. Go ####ing fix healthcare that’s burning to the ground or educate people better. Particularly in rural areas. Clear there’s a lack of resources at play here in key areas.

You don't want UCP to try and "fix" healthcare either. Famously they privatized hospital food and laundry services to freshly created companies run by former campaign managers. With medical lab services the UCP sold it off to Labcorp and a bunch of UCP insider investors to create Dynalife, saw lab result and wait times more than quadruple and then bought the contracts out at a giant taxpayer loss (also benefiting their insiders). These were not segments of healthcare that were having issues. In the healthcare areas that they could have fixed, they instead decided to wage a war on health care professionals causing an exodus of doctors and healthcare workers from the province leaving us with severe province wide personnel deficits.

UCP is the party of ultra right wing sloganeering cronyism. Anything they try to fix, it's to benefit their insiders. The whole lifting caps on energy prices under Kenney resulting in Alberta getting the highest energy prices in the country when we are the Canada's largest energy producer. Then Kenney coincidentally takes a board position at ATCOEnergy.

Don't get me started about all the multi billion dollar payouts to oil companies, non-existent pipeline/refinery/well cleanup fund/energy war room. On the APP, does anyone want the same people who squandered and siphoned off the Alberta Heritage Fund into general budget revenue anywhere close to your pension plan?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1710802919455412561

[Muta]

Yoho (with sweat running down his face) after reading FlameOn's post:

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Muta

Yoho (with sweat running down his face) after reading FlameOn's post:

No. Yoho would cream his pants before clicking on the video because the screenshot look like the UCP ones pwning the "Feds"! hahaha

[Jacks]

Edit: I should stay out of this thread, especially when I've had too much to drink.

[Yoho]

I’ll be very interested in seeing the numbers Freeland gives and if the liberals haven’t already stolen from CPP.