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Old 10-27-2023, 04:13 PM   #101
Enoch Root
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Except that Huska and Savard have said that beyond defensive responsibilities the players are free to be creative and play to their strengths when it comes to offense.

So either the coaches are not speaking the truth or the players don't believe that they actually have this freedom.
Exactly.

It is not Huska's fault that these guys can't complete a single pass, or generate any speed through the neutral zone, or connect on a one-timer, or hit the net, or...
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Old 10-27-2023, 04:24 PM   #102
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Exactly.

It is not Huska's fault that these guys can't complete a single pass, or generate any speed through the neutral zone, or connect on a one-timer, or hit the net, or...
Who's fault is it? This is a team wide issue. It's a confidence and cohesion issue. It's hard to say it's a talent issue when even the most basic of hockey plays are not being executed.
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Old 10-27-2023, 04:27 PM   #103
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We can make lots and lots of threads and posts about them!
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Old 10-27-2023, 04:34 PM   #104
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Addition by subtraction

Backlund was +24 and Kadri was -19 last year
So trade Backlund and keep Kadri.
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Old 10-27-2023, 04:56 PM   #105
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I think it would be a mistake to give up assets to get rid of them.
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Old 10-27-2023, 04:58 PM   #106
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Huberdeau looks completely washed up.
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Old 10-27-2023, 05:08 PM   #107
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If they traded a first to get rid of Huberdeau or Kadri, they'd just give another stupid contract out with the ew space and the be stuck with that and no pick.

Ride it out, trade everyone with value around them (Lindholm, Hanifin, Backlund, Tanev, Mangiapane...), and maybe Huberdeau and/or Kadri would want to leave. So essentially, rebuild but not around them, more "beside them" waive them or offer to terminate their contract so they an sign somewhere else.

Cap space is only valuable if you use it right. You need picks to draft good players you can build around. Those are they players you pay, not older UFA'S.
Maybe they'll come to hate playing and we can Mike Smith/Duncan Keith them

And they wind up with nondescript "jobs" for the team working remotely the following season.
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Old 10-27-2023, 05:11 PM   #108
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Kadri's contract isn't as bad and he was an integral part of the Avs 2022 Cup run, so he probably has some trade value with a little bit of retention. He's a pretty good player when he's motivated and there's something to play for, but he's temperamental and can look lazy AF from time to time.

At the moment, I don't think Huberdeau's contract is tradeable without an unreasonable amount of retention or another really bad contract coming back, so he's probably stuck here. At some point, once the roster has been blown up, I could see the organization just signing a bunch of offense-first players, an offense-first coach and tailoring the whole roster towards Huberdeau's strengths. Might get his game back on track, although I don't think it'll lead to playoff success. But at this point, that would probably beat the alternative.
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Old 10-27-2023, 05:14 PM   #109
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Old 10-27-2023, 05:17 PM   #110
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Except that Huska and Savard have said that beyond defensive responsibilities the players are free to be creative and play to their strengths when it comes to offense.

So either the coaches are not speaking the truth or the players don't believe that they actually have this freedom.
It's the latter. Also, Savard is in charge of the PP only, not the o zone system. This team would play vastly different if he was.
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Old 10-27-2023, 05:18 PM   #111
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Try and see what you can get for Huberdeau by retaining $2-$3.5M AAV.

Try and see what you can get for Kadri by retaining up to $1M AAV.

$3-4.5M AAV in dead cap space really just isn’t that big of a deal. Commit to a rebuild, and just close the book on this run.

If you can’t get them out the door with some minor retention, then you just ride them out.
Huberdeau at $7-8.5MM for close to 8 years would cost a ton of draft capital to move.

He’ll need to rebound to be movable at any price.
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Old 10-27-2023, 05:31 PM   #112
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When the time comes, the Flames will hire the right doctor and there will be no cure for that allergy or no procedure that can cure that ailment and there will be no other choice but to LTIRetire them.

Then they will have trade value for a cap-floor team.
Problem solved.
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Old 10-27-2023, 05:32 PM   #113
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Except that Huska and Savard have said that beyond defensive responsibilities the players are free to be creative and play to their strengths when it comes to offense.

So either the coaches are not speaking the truth or the players don't believe that they actually have this freedom.
It's true, they absolutely have the freedom. The problem is, the opposition team is paid to defend them and make scoring hard, which for certain teams like the Flames, just happens to be more difficult than the average.

Teams protect the house and give the Flames the outside shots, so that's all they get. So It's up to the Flames' individuals or game breakers to make plays, break down defensive structures and find the open ice.

Just watch highlights of Gaudreau to see how it's done. Johnny use attack defenders and deke past them, or cut through the middle of the ice laterally and take it to the net himself for a wrap around chance, or if not, he'd back up defenders, button hook and find the trailer or he'd spin behind the net a couple times and find Monahan or Lindholm in the slot. He had the skill and talent to break down defensive structures, draw double teams and find the open man. Nobody on the current roster can do anything like this, that's why finishing has felt monumentally difficult over the past couple seasons IMO.
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Old 10-27-2023, 05:39 PM   #114
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When the time comes, the Flames will hire the right doctor and there will be no cure for that allergy or no procedure that can cure that ailment and there will be no other choice but to LTIRetire them.

Then they will have trade value for a cap-floor team.
Problem solved.
And the insurance company will happily pay out a gazillion dollars.

Nice fairy tale.
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Old 10-27-2023, 05:51 PM   #115
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You don't do anything. You sit it out, accept you're going to suck, use the excess cap space in the few seasons after this to take expiring bad contracts for picks/prospects and slowly build the foundation of a new, young core. That will take 3-4 years.

In 3-4 years you can likely buy out Kadri, given he won't have many years remaining, and you accept you're paying $10.5M/yr for a turnover machine. But at that point you're hoping his contract doesn't really hurt you because your core is young and cheap. When the new core is in line for a raise Huberdeau will be coming off the books (maybe if we're lucky he decides to pack it in a year or two early).

Sorry fellow flames fans, the last year of Treliving's tenure set this team back a decade. It's going to be a long, hard road back to being a 'contending' team but patience is the key. We're looking at a few #### years before we can hopefully start turning a corner.

In an ideal world Huberdeau acts as an elder statesman to help acclimate the kids to the NHL while Kadri doesn't become too much of a cancer. That's the best we can hope for.

Last edited by RobotTalk; 10-27-2023 at 05:53 PM.
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Old 10-27-2023, 05:52 PM   #116
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Huberdeau looks completely washed up.
Barn Burner nailed it again.

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Old 10-27-2023, 05:55 PM   #117
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And the insurance company will happily pay out a gazillion dollars.

Nice fairy tale.
This has been done by multiple teams in the past - Toronto with Lupul, Chicago with Hossa being prime examples - why can't the flames do it.

Unlikely this year, but 3-4 years from now? Why not?
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Old 10-27-2023, 05:58 PM   #118
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This has been done by multiple teams in the past - Toronto with Lupul, Chicago with Hossa being prime examples - why can't the flames do it.

Unlikely this year, but 3-4 years from now? Why not?
Do you know for sure that insurance was paying out the contracts?
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Old 10-27-2023, 06:01 PM   #119
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Do you know for sure that insurance was paying out the contracts?
Do we know for sure that insurance would pay out on either of these contracts?

I'm not saying it'll happen, because its the Flames and nothing ever comes that easy here, but if multiple teams have used LTIR as a means for escaping bad contracts over the years I don't see why that route should be dismissed out of hand.
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Old 10-27-2023, 06:21 PM   #120
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I mean the contract lengths aren't comparable, but the Oilers got out of Mike Smith's contract because of some mystery injury despite playing their very last game in the playoffs prior.
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