Israel declares war on Hamas

[FlameOn]

So listening to the CBC podcast this morning, why are they still reporting Gaza Health Ministry casualty numbers, without disclaimer, when the ministry is directly controlled by Hamas and have been independently caught falsifying numbers now by multiple countries/intelligence organizations? The Gazan health authorities still have not adjusted down the number after the lies about the Al Ahli hospital incident.

Even the BBC now says "The Gaza Health ministry claims casualty in the last 24 hrs as X, these figures cannot be independently verified". Whereas the CBC states "incidentally the Health Ministry in Gaza is reporting today there have been over X deaths over the last 24 hrs, that pushes the number of confirmed deaths in Gaza to over Y". One is a statement of claim which a news organization is free to report on while keeping journalistic integrity, the other is a statement of fact without verification when there have been known falsehoods published by the source.

[Cube Inmate]

When Hamas reports 2.5 million total deaths, and there are still 2 million people in the territory, I'm sure someone will catch on. Or they'll start claiming that the overcrowding in Gaza must have been far worse than we even knew!!

[blankall]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

So listening to the CBC podcast this morning, why are they still reporting Gaza Health Ministry casualty numbers, without disclaimer, when the ministry is directly controlled by Hamas and have been independently caught falsifying numbers now by multiple countries/intelligence organizations? The Gazan health authorities still have not adjusted down the number after the lies about the Al Ahli hospital incident.

Even the BBC now says "The Gaza Health ministry claims casualty in the last 24 hrs as X, these figures cannot be independently verified". Whereas the CBC states "incidentally the Health Ministry in Gaza is reporting today there have been over X deaths over the last 24 hrs, that pushes the number of confirmed deaths in Gaza to over Y". One is a statement of claim which a news organization is free to report on while keeping journalistic integrity, the other is a statement of fact when there have been known falsehoods published by the source.

This is what consistently happens in this conflict. Even when the media does get verified numbers, there's always a shockingly high amount of males, including those in their teens, amongst the "children" and other civilians, and no mention that Hamas actively recruits and uses teenage soldiers. No mention that a huge proportion of the civilian casualties are male, even though more than half of all civilians are female.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by blankall

This is what consistently happens in this conflict. Even when the media does get verified numbers, there's always a shockingly high amount of males, including those in their teens, amongst the "children" and other civilians, and no mention that Hamas actively recruits and uses teenage soldiers. No mention that a huge proportion of the civilian casualties are male, even though more than half of all civilians are female.

Yes, I’m curious what criteria the Gaza Health Authority uses to distinguish between combatant and civilian casualties.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by blankall

This is what consistently happens in this conflict. Even when the media does get verified numbers, there's always a shockingly high amount of males, including those in their teens, amongst the "children" and other civilians, and no mention that Hamas actively recruits and uses teenage soldiers. No mention that a huge proportion of the civilian casualties are male, even though more than half of all civilians are female.

Source? Thanks

[Scroopy Noopers]

I don’t disagree that the media has had lots of blunders here. But they’re kinda damned if they do, damned if they don’t. If they don’t report numbers right away, then they are “hiding them” and it can easily be used as propaganda. When they try to report first, they typically fumble facts.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

that would been just as useful if they promised them 40 virgins.. lol

Originally Posted by blankall

more than half of all civilians are female.

Totally off topic thought from my rats nest of a brain, but how does Paradise even work for radical Islamists? If all the martyrs are promised 40 virgins in heaven and half the population is female, wouldn't this create a massive shortage of virgin woman in paradise where everyone is supposed to be happy? How does Allah address this supply shortage then when virgins only count as virgins if they died a virgin? Wouldn't you end up with some martyrs getting 80 year old virgins? Is there some kind of virgin refurbishment program that happens on entry into paradise to keep supply up, or does Allah just somehow create virgins out of nothing that have never lived on earth?

Something else for every one to argue about

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Well you seem pretty naive to the dirtyness of it.
You're welcome.

You know what, please educate me further using your first hand experience only.

Originally Posted by Bagor

For challenging his narrative?

What is my narrative, please use quotes from this thread that clearly outline my narrative.

No it didn't. as your definition of "both sides" is open to misinterpretation.

All I was pretty much asking was do you agree that the British army are guilty of the same human shield behaviour that you correctly point out Hamas are doing.

How is "both sides" open to misinterpretation?

The British Military is guilty of mush worse than what they did in NI.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Totally off topic thought from my rats nest of a brain, but how does Paradise even work for radical Islamists? If all the martyrs are promised 40 virgins in heaven and half the population is female, wouldn't this create a massive shortage of virgin woman in paradise where everyone is supposed to be happy? How does Allah address this supply shortage then when virgins only count as virgins if they died a virgin? Wouldn't you end up with some martyrs getting 80 year old virgins? Is there some kind of virgin refurbishment program that happens on entry into paradise to keep supply up, or does Allah just somehow create virgins out of nothing that have never lived on earth?

Something else for every one to argue about

Presumably Allah just makes virgins from scratch. But when it is all just made up fantasy by thousand year old horny dudes, I guess you can choose whatever you want to believe. Logic doesn't have to work in fantasies.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

You know what, please educate me further using your first hand experience only.

Almost 30 years living in the conflict with family and friends murdered at the hands of British state sponsored terrorists and the subsequent lies and cover up's first hand enough for you?

Go educate yourself. Start with whitewashes like the Widgery report. Have a look at the Glenanne gang, watch the Miami showband massacre on Netflix and ask yourself why the Brits can't wait till May next year till their rushed in legacy act kicks in. Show some sign of critical thinking.

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

What is my narrative, please use quotes from this thread that clearly outline my narrative.

Find your own quotes. That engaging in military activity from the top of a residential building constitutes using the residents of that building as human shields. Which I don't disagree with.

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

How is "both sides" open to misinterpretation?

Is that even a serious question? Are you being deliberately obtuse? British/Irish. Republican /Loyalist. Catholic/Protestant.

[TheIronMaiden]

In this thread, there is a really interesting divide in perspective based on people experience with colonialism.

[Flacker]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Thank you for acknowledging that the British army by building their heavily fortified observation posts at the top of civilian apartment blocks were using human shields.

You really like twisting reality don't you?

I assume this is in reference to the British Army/RUC using the roof of Divis Flats in Belfast as an observation post during "The Troubles". I didn't look too hard, but I couldn't find a single instance of any offensive action being taken from this position, it was simply to observe and direct forces on the ground and keep an eye on the troublemakers on Falls Road (There were also no shortage of arseholes on the Shankill, for the record). If they used this as an offensive position then yes, you are correct in claiming using human shields. It was a high point, and a building who's residents were terrorized by both sides of that conflict, not a very good parallel to make to rocket firing Hamas terrorists.

The British army made no shortage of mistakes in N. Ireland, but trying to put Hamas anywhere in the same light as an organized, regulated army, is an insult to anyone that ever served.

Hamas, just like the IRA/UDA in past days, are the worst enemies of their own people.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Presumably Allah just makes virgins from scratch. But when it is all just made up fantasy by thousand year old horny dudes, I guess you can choose whatever you want to believe. Logic doesn't have to work in fantasies.

Well he created Eve from Adam's rib, so I would assume that he could create at least 24 virgins per martyr and the rest can come from the general population.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Well he created Eve from Adam's rib, so I would assume that he could create at least 24 virgins per martyr and the rest can come from the general population.

Maybe the virgins are just all the other men looking for virgins. Could be a big fk fest of dudes up there.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Well he created Eve from Adam's rib, so I would assume that he could create at least 24 virgins per martyr and the rest can come from the general population.

If you gotta have faith, it really is best not to sweat about the details, lest the whole thing unravel.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Totally off topic thought from my rats nest of a brain, but how does Paradise even work for radical Islamists? If all the martyrs are promised 40 virgins in heaven and half the population is female, wouldn't this create a massive shortage of virgin woman in paradise where everyone is supposed to be happy? How does Allah address this supply shortage then when virgins only count as virgins if they died a virgin? Wouldn't you end up with some martyrs getting 80 year old virgins? Is there some kind of virgin refurbishment program that happens on entry into paradise to keep supply up, or does Allah just somehow create virgins out of nothing that have never lived on earth?

Something else for every one to argue about

They misread the brochure, they don't get 40 virgins or 72 virgins in paradise. They get one 40 year old virgin, and they spend eternity getting told not to touch her and playing minecraft endlessly.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

I don’t disagree that the media has had lots of blunders here. But they’re kinda damned if they do, damned if they don’t. If they don’t report numbers right away, then they are “hiding them” and it can easily be used as propaganda. When they try to report first, they typically fumble facts.

The media and otherwise reputable organizations lose all self-control and reason when it comes to this issue.

Amnesty International's release from July 25, 2014:

Amnesty International is monitoring and investigating such reports, but does not have evidence at this point that Palestinian civilians have been intentionally used by Hamas or Palestinian armed groups during the current hostilities to “shield” specific locations or military personnel or equipment from Israeli attacks.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/ne...s-and-answers/

A statement from the UNRWA, the UN organization responsible for running schools in the Gaza Strip, July 22, 2014:

UNRWA CONDEMNS PLACEMENT OF ROCKETS, FOR A SECOND TIME, IN ONE OF ITS SCHOOLS

https://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press...ne-its-schools

How does this possibly happen? This information gets used as propaganda and people lose their lives over this. Does Amnesty not realize that the ultimate end result of their "reports" is another Israeli offensive.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Flacker

it was simply to observe and direct forces on the ground and It was a high point, and a building who's residents were terrorized by both sides of that conflict, not a very good parallel to make to rocket firing Hamas terrorists.

It was used for military activity. Period. It was a permanent military post I koistrategically placed on the top of a nationalist residential building rendering them human shields.

Originally Posted by Flacker

The British army made no shortage of mistakes in N. Ireland, but trying to put Hamas anywhere in the same light as an organized, regulated army, is an insult to anyone that ever served. .

Now who's twisting?
I point out that their military activity on top of Divis and the nursing homes on Broadway amounted to the use of human shields. Same as Hamas.

The comparisons stopped there. Oh. Apart from the murder of civilian part. Yes the loyalists and Republicans were terrorists. But don't be so naive to think that the organized SELF regulated Brits were much better.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Source? Thanks

https://time.com/3035937/gaza-israel...an-casualties/

We have seen this before. A similar dispute over casualty figures occurred during Israel’s “Operation Cast Lead” in the Gaza Strip in January 2009. The Israelis contended that the majority of the fatalities were combatants; the Palestinians claimed they were civilians. The media and international organizations tended to side with the Palestinians. The UN’s own investigatory commission headed by Richard Goldstone, which produced the Goldstone Report, cited PCHR’s figures along with other Palestinian groups providing similar figures. Over a year later, after the news media had moved on, Hamas Interior Minister Fathi Hammad enumerated Hamas fatalities at 600 to 700, a figure close to the Israeli estimate of 709 and about three times higher than the figure of 236 combatants provided by PCHR in 2009 and cited in the Goldstone Report. Initially, playing to the international audience, it was important for Hamas to reinforce the image of Israel’s military action as indiscriminate and disproportionate by emphasizing the high number of civilians and low number of Hamas combatants among the fatalities. However, later on, Hamas had to deal with the flip side of the issue: that Hamas’s own constituency, the Gazan population, felt they had been abandoned by the Hamas government, which had made no effort to shelter them.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

So listening to the CBC podcast this morning, why are they still reporting Gaza Health Ministry casualty numbers, without disclaimer, when the ministry is directly controlled by Hamas and have been independently caught falsifying numbers now by multiple countries/intelligence organizations? The Gazan health authorities still have not adjusted down the number after the lies about the Al Ahli hospital incident.

Even the BBC now says "The Gaza Health ministry claims casualty in the last 24 hrs as X, these figures cannot be independently verified". Whereas the CBC states "incidentally the Health Ministry in Gaza is reporting today there have been over X deaths over the last 24 hrs, that pushes the number of confirmed deaths in Gaza to over Y". One is a statement of claim which a news organization is free to report on while keeping journalistic integrity, the other is a statement of fact without verification when there have been known falsehoods published by the source.

CBC seems more worried and expends more effort to justify not calling terrorists, terrorists.