[Signing] Flames sign Kadri (7 years, $7m AAV)

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

Laughable that everyone figures turning Monahan into Kadri was a GM’s decision. The people who orchestrated that are still running the team.

Wut?

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

Wut?

Ownership is what he means. They instigated Sutter and pushed for Huberdeau and Kadri most likely. AKA Murray Edwards who's fingers in the pie also likely is what pushed Tre to leave because he could forsee the mess ahead of him.

[UKflames]

Originally Posted by keenan87

On Kadri:

I know it is not an excuse and his play needs to be better. In his defense, it would probably be a lot easier to get energized for games when you have the likes of Mackinnon, Rantanen, Makar, and Landeskog on the team. They were an absolute contender and before that, he had Matthews and Marner.

Instead, he gets to play with Dube, Mangiapane, Backlund, and the ghost of Huberdeau. Might as well just keep collecting the cheques.

The Flames have no superstar that can help rally a team. They also have no young up and coming player that can take ok that role. That is a big miss at the moment and probably doesn't help the players. Once again, I know there are no excuses when making $7 MM but trying to point out human nature.

That is no way an excuse in any shape or form, he knew the team when he signed the deal. If he didn't think he could get up for games because of the players around him, then that's on him.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Ownership is what he means. They instigated Sutter and pushed for Huberdeau and Kadri most likely. AKA Murray Edwards who's fingers in the pie also likely is what pushed Tre to leave because he could forsee the mess ahead of him.

So Murray made Treliving go out and overpay for multiple UFAs? I agree that Murray preferred to re-sign Huberdeau and Weegar but I think Treliving truly believed in the new acquisitions and the current core to double down on it. He had been targeting Kadri for a long time.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Bonded

So Murray made Treliving go out and overpay for multiple UFAs? I agree that Murray preferred to re-sign Huberdeau and Weegar but I think Treliving truly believed in the new acquisitions and the current core to double down on it. He had been targeting Kadri for a long time.

Was it that egregious of an error to target Kadri? If he had acquired him the first time around who’s to say how that would have worked but it certainly seems like it could have been a home run.

Also, how do we know if Conroy or Snow or anyone else wasn’t in Treliving’s ear telling him to go get Kadri? There’s usually a team of people making these decisions. I get that people are looking for a throat to choke, but a lot of these criticisms are misplaced.

I do fully support that many of the UFA’blunders’, as out by some, are easily traced back to ownerships position on competitiveness.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Was it that egregious of an error to target Kadri? If he had acquired him the first time around who’s to say how that would have worked but it certainly seems like it could have been a home run.

Also, how do we know if Conroy or Snow or anyone else wasn’t in Treliving’s ear telling him to go get Kadri? There’s usually a team of people making these decisions. I get that people are looking for a throat to choke, but a lot of these criticisms are misplaced.

I do fully support that many of the UFA’blunders’, as out by some, are easily traced back to ownerships position on competitiveness.

So give Treliving credit for wanting Kadri initially, but blame Conroy and Snow and ownership for wanting Kadri later?

[dino7c]

Kadri was unreal in Colorado and had a playoffs that were exactly what the Flames have needed for years. At the time it wasn't so crazy.

as for Monahan well...nobody else would take him for a 2nd even so it goes to show how hard it is to move a contract.

hindsight it was a disaster but, how she goes I guess. Maybe Kadri should remember how to play hockey. He was over 100 point pace playing with average linemates FFS.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

So give Treliving credit for wanting Kadri initially, but blame Conroy and Snow and ownership for wanting Kadri later?

Not exactly. Conroy and Snow could have been advocating for Kadri all along. They were part of hockey ops in 2017.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

So give Treliving credit for wanting Kadri initially, but blame Conroy and Snow and ownership for wanting Kadri later?

lol, Treliving also had a reputation of keeping things close to the vest and working alone and Conroy also said he didn't agree with his approach to the Gaudreau and Tkachuk situation. Targeting Kadri when he was younger was fine. Paying assets to overpay him as an UFA is a different situation. All in in bet on two years of cheap Lindholm/Hanifin contracts.
Brouwer to Neal to Coleman to Kadri was a continuation of a trend to overpay 2nd/3rd liners that were bound to regress. No Neal contract and they have the cap space to sign Tkachuk longer.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Kadri was unreal in Colorado and had a playoffs that were exactly what the Flames have needed for years. At the time it wasn't so crazy.

as for Monahan well...nobody else would take him for a 2nd even so it goes to show how hard it is to move a contract.

hindsight it was a disaster but, how she goes I guess. Maybe Kadri should remember how to play hockey. He was over 100 point pace playing with average linemates FFS.

He was 32. Historically guys go downhill at that age. Consider he had the one career year, it was a huge gamble that fails miserably.

He was sitting on the side line for a long time. So most of the NHL understood that . Treliving had nothing to lose, if it doesn’t work then he can jump ship and he did exactly that. Laugh on the Flames

[dino7c]

Posters hate the Flames so much it's always the people still here at fault

can't wait until the Leafs go on a run and we hear how great Brad is (Considering he will have zero to do with all their top players)

If I was the GM of the Leafs they would have the same record, my old man doesn't know the owner though

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Posters hate the Flames so much it's always the people still here at fault

can't wait until the Leafs go on a run and we hear how great Brad is (Considering he will have zero to do with all their top players)

If I was the GM of the Leafs they would have the same record, my old man doesn't know the owner though

I don’t profess to be on either side of this fandom coin but the same could be said with some posters koolaid esque support for this team that literally just fumbled its way out of what was shaping up to be a decent and exciting core for the foreseeable future (Gaudreau/Tkachuk era) as it sits we have two of the richest paid players this franchise has had in Huby and Kadri with literally no attachment to them outside of one of the most frustrating seasons of ANY pro sports team last year.

When you consider that, apathy is an understatement for how some fans are feeling about the current trajectory of this team but regardless I can look at how the team started last year and see that we are still so new into this season to really pass an educated opinion on the current team but if I shook a magic 8ball the signs would all point to concern I’m sure.

At this point though, the season just started, my pool is but 2 weeks old and I’m generally happy it’s hockey time again so I’ll willingly give the season a few more games before I throw in the towel on this years flames.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

Laughable that everyone figures turning Monahan into Kadri was a GM’s decision. The people who orchestrated that are still running the team.

I don’t believe this. I think Treliving made the call to get Kadri and he chased him for a long time finally seeing him come into his own during a contract year.

Ownership wanted to compete but let’s not pretend Edwards was the one to orchestrate the deal. Treliving made this call

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Ownership is what he means. They instigated Sutter and pushed for Huberdeau and Kadri most likely. AKA Murray Edwards who's fingers in the pie also likely is what pushed Tre to leave because he could forsee the mess ahead of him.

Treliving signed in Toronto, hardly the place a GM goes to do his own thing

[flames_fan_down_under]

Ownership sets the mandate to compete but make no mistake Treliving is the one identifying players to acquire.

[Vinny01]

What has happened the last 2 years really does sour my opinion on what Brad did when he was here. I think he did build a decent team but fumbled their 2 franchise players somehow having his 2 best players expire the same time while having contracts like Neal/Lucic run a year past their expiry.

I hate that the org decided against rebuilding when they lost the heartbeat of their team and best player. Gio, Brodie lost for nothing, an arm and a leg for Hamonic. The summer of Brad is a nightmare that will haunt this team for a near decade.

When Chucky bailed the message should have been to tear it down and when his contract expired tell Brad it is time to move on. Instead he swaps Gaudreau for Hubderdeau and Tkachuk for Kadri and hands out a combined 183M and 23 years of term to a 32 year old, 30 year old and a guy turning 30.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Treliving absolutely ####ed this organization

The organization has done nothing so far to indicate that they dislike the moves he made or move away from the direction we were headed under.

In fact much of what they have done has supported those moves and appear to suggest they agree with them, if not were at the core of the philosophy.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Bonded

So Murray made Treliving go out and overpay for multiple UFAs? I agree that Murray preferred to re-sign Huberdeau and Weegar but I think Treliving truly believed in the new acquisitions and the current core to double down on it. He had been targeting Kadri for a long time.

If he said no to a rebuild then while not forcing Treliving to sign those specific players he doesn't really give him much option. It isn't like the list of UFAs being signed to great deals is long or even short.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Spurs

If he said no to a rebuild then while not forcing Treliving to sign those specific players he doesn't really give him much option. It isn't like the list of UFAs being signed to great deals is long or even short.

He doesn’t have to fill every single dollar of cap space he has available. Carolina isn’t rebuilding and they don’t sign UFAs to terrible contracts

[CliffFletcher]

Something to try: Go back and look at the UFAs available when Brouwer, Neal, and Kadri were signed. If you were a GM tasked with finding a top-six forward, who would you have signed instead?

Here are the deals signed in 2016:

https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/news/20...-agent-tracker

Instead of Brouwer at 4 x 4.5, do you sign Okposo at 7 x 6? How about Boedker at 4 x 4? Or Backes at 5 x 6?

Even with hindsight, the only one of the top 12 forwards signed who you’d probably take in a do-over is Perron at 2 x 3.75.

UFAs are almost always overpayments that do not age well. GMs know this. They’re not stupid. But if you’re trying to improve your team now, they’re the only way to do it without giving up assets besides cap space.

So a GM has two options when it comes to UFAs:

A) Overpay them and give too much term.

B) Don’t sign them at all.

Because C) Sign UFAs for shorter term, isn’t an actual option. UFAs are an open market and another team will bid higher if you balk at contracts that extend players into their 30s.

If you choose option B, you’d better have an owner who is onboard with a very patient draft and develop model. And he better be okay with seeing the team regularly slip from wildcard playoff team to outside the playoffs because management isn’t availing itself of the primary way to plug holes in the roster in the short term.