Israel declares war on Hamas

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Spotlight journalism and social media certainly do effect public opinion. At any given time, war is being waged in a dozen or more countries in the world. And that has been true for as long as any us have been alive.

Not far from Israel, the Yemeni Civil War has been raging for a decade, with 370,000 dead so far. Where are the news features? The public petitions? The protests? The moral outrage?

Exactly. The proxy war between Saudi and Iran has been horrendous. This actually so far pales in comparison yet nobody cares. The lack of outrage is just like what’s happening in Ukraine / Russia. Over time, people become desensitized and if this war lasts for any length of time over a year or two the same will happen with it.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Spotlight journalism and social media certainly do effect public opinion. At any given time, war is being waged in a dozen or more countries in the world. And that has been true for as long as any us have been alive.

Not far from Israel, the Yemeni Civil War has been raging for a decade, with 370,000 dead so far. Where are the news features? The public petitions? The protests? The moral outrage?

What terrorist attacks have you heard of so far this year? For me, it's Israel and Belgium.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...idents_in_2023

There's many reasons why a lot of things that happen in the world are ignored/under reported over here, and they're fairly straightforward to put together.

[DionTheDman]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Numerous wars waged, countless suicide bombs, intifadas, demands for a state that would jeopardize Israeli security. Teaching their children now for decades about the evil Jew, Brainwashing their society. See the books they give their children in school

https://www.timesofisrael.com/unrwa-...-watchdog/amp/

But to them and their supporters it is always Israels fault, they are impervious to look within their own society and say “hey, you know what, trying to kill Israelis has not gotten us very far”. Their supporters that flood social media come up with ridiculous words like genocide and apartheid, without actually questioning what the Palestinians could have done many years ago, when your slogan is “from the river to the sea” you are going to make it very hard to make peace. When you pay terrorists families like the PLO still does, you make it hard for peace, when you continually reject reforming your own society you can’t make peace.

I by no means am saying Israel is without any fault, i think I have said now numerous times Israel could have and can do more in the future for peace. But if peace is ever a possibility it will take a major reform of Palestinian society and some god damn accountability.

But to them and their supporters it is always the Palestinians' fault, they are impervious to look within their own society and say “hey, you know what, trying to annex Palestinian lands has not gotten us very far”. Their supporters that flood social media with ridiculous words like anti-semitism in response to criticism. When you continually play the victim despite being the dominant group in the country and control access to resources, food, water and movement, you are going to make it very hard to make peace. When you cry crocodile tears like Israel still does while oppressing the Palestinians and expect them to gratefully accept what scraps you provide in one hand while destroying their homes on the other, you make it hard for peace, when you continually reject reforming your own society you can’t make peace.

I by no means am saying the Palestinians, especially with regards to Hamas, are without any fault. But if peace is ever a possibility it will take a major reform of Israeli society, a realization that you can't oppress an entire people into submission and some god damn accountability.

[Geraldsh]

Looking at that graph, I think the Palestinians should realize poking Israelis causes a lot of hurt. Scary thing is the Israelis are starting to think just causing injuries is not sending the message, this time maybe hit harder.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by DionTheDman

But to them and their supporters it is always the Palestinians' fault, they are impervious to look within their own society and say “hey, you know what, trying to annex Palestinian lands has not gotten us very far”. Their supporters that flood social media with ridiculous words like anti-semitism in response to criticism. When you continually play the victim despite being the dominant group in the country and control access to resources, food, water and movement, you are going to make it very hard to make peace. When you cry crocodile tears like Israel still does while oppressing the Palestinians and expect them to gratefully accept what scraps you provide in one hand while destroying their homes on the other, you make it hard for peace, when you continually reject reforming your own society you can’t make peace.

I by no means am saying the Palestinians, especially with regards to Hamas, are without any fault. But if peace is ever a possibility it will take a major reform of Israeli society, a realization that you can't oppress an entire people into submission and some god damn accountability.

Wage war after war after war and lose and lose and lose, what do you think happens? Keep doing the same thing and get the same dumb prizes. The other Arab countries learned a long time ago to not wage war with Israel and peace was made. Don’t want 95% of the West Bank which was offered? Still want the 1967 borders, after losing the war you waged? Ya crocodile tears.

You lose every war but want Israel to let them dictate all the terms, so they can create another Lebanon or Syria right on top of Israel. You would like that tho I am sure.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Geraldsh

Looking at that graph, I think the Palestinians should realize poking Israelis causes a lot of hurt. Scary thing is the Israelis are starting to think just causing injuries is not sending the message, this time maybe hit harder.

Not a bad idea, they should try it. Would be an ingenious strategy

[Southside403]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Numerous wars waged, countless suicide bombs, intifadas, demands for a state that would jeopardize Israeli security. Teaching their children now for decades about the evil Jew, Brainwashing their society. See the books they give their children in school

https://www.timesofisrael.com/unrwa-...-watchdog/amp/

But to them and their supporters it is always Israels fault, they are impervious to look within their own society and say “hey, you know what, trying to kill Israelis has not gotten us very far”. Their supporters that flood social media come up with ridiculous words like genocide and apartheid, without actually questioning what the Palestinians could have done many years ago, when your slogan is “from the river to the sea” you are going to make it very hard to make peace. When you pay terrorists families like the PLO still does, you make it hard for peace, when you continually reject reforming your own society you can’t make peace.

I by no means am saying Israel is without any fault, i think I have said now numerous times Israel could have and can do more in the future for peace. But if peace is ever a possibility it will take a major reform of Palestinian society and some god damn accountability.

Zionism is is even worse they funnel money from Qatar to fund Hamas. Radical Israeli settlers are as dirty as Hamas and Netanyahu and is clan are all savages.

[DionTheDman]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Not a bad idea, they should try it. Would be an ingenious strategy

Ah yes, the "kill even more of them" strategy. That will definitely work.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by DionTheDman

Ah yes, the "kill even more of them" strategy. That will definitely work.

Not what I said, continuing to wage war has never worked for the Palestinians. So imagine if they would have accepted the terms offered to them decades ago. Imagine if they listened to this exact strategy of not attacking Israel. WOW, could have been over decades ago. They could have been working with Israel and created something great.

Zero point in trying to make people on the anti-Israel side understand that the Palestinians for DECADES rejected peace in favour of trying to annihilate Israel. So I am done with arguing with people who look at this conflict in a vacuum and bring up the same victim stats for pity points. Always zero accountability on this side of the argument , but how could there be when the Palestinians support Hamas. The cycle will of course continue. Adios

[Southside403]

https://arab.news/9quf7
Pretty good honest interview

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by DionTheDman

Ah yes, the "kill even more of them" strategy. That will definitely work.

it worked real good here in N America

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

I think one thing that has surprised some governments is that regular people know a lot more about this conflict than before, the tired narrative of Israel is just fighting terrorism is not cutting it. And you can see how many governments have modified their statements now. A lot more talk about rules of war and rights of Palestinians.

Keep drinking kool-aids. The world is never united, but those who matter, have never been this determined to finally solve it. USA sent two aircrafts for the first time ever, so did UK. New York mayor came to visit the scene of massacre. German leader came to visit Israel as well. Palestine is so isolated, that they had to bring a portrait of Putin, of all people, to their rally.

Everyone welcomed Ukrainian refugees with open arms. Syrian refugees? Not a warm welcome, but they were accepted. Palestinian refugees? No, thanks.

Palestine is a pariah state, like Russia and Iran, and is largely viewed as a proxy of the latter. Arab world apparently want nothing to do with them, let alone western world. Media will keep posting whatever narrative sells to their audience, but when it comes action, they won't even open the border for you.

[Pointman]

People are sometimes confused about this conflict because they see it as two-sided conflict. In reality, there's a triangle:

1. Israel (with USA&the west)
2. Arabian world, led by Saudi
3. Iran and its proxies (Palestine, Lebanon)

Once you see it like this, many things will become much clearer. Including the reason for Oct 7, which was USA and Saudi looking to sign a defensive pact. For that USA demanded that Saudi made peace with Israel, and they were on the verge of signing it. Palestinians are technically Arabs, but politically they are with Iran, not with Saudi/Egypt faction.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Exactly. The proxy war between Saudi and Iran has been horrendous. This actually so far pales in comparison yet nobody cares. The lack of outrage is just like what’s happening in Ukraine / Russia. Over time, people become desensitized and if this war lasts for any length of time over a year or two the same will happen with it.

This is essential to understand the Gaza war as well. Gaza, although ethnically Arabian, is de facto Iranian proxy. Saudi, Egypt, others hate them just as much, as Israel, if not more.

[afc wimbledon]

Ironically through most of the 1980's and '90's Israel was Iran's main supplier of weapons and kept Iran's air force operational during the Iran Iraq war

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Ironically through most of the 1980's and '90's Israel was Iran's main supplier of weapons and kept Iran's air force operational during the Iran Iraq war

Because Iranians are Persians and Shia Muslims. So Israel thought, that they would be a counter balance to Arabs, who are Sunni Muslims. But it is not about ethnicity and religion anymore.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Because Iranians are Persians and Shia Muslims. So Israel thought, that they would be a counter balance to Arabs, who are Sunni Muslims. But it is not about ethnicity and religion anymore.

Beg to differ but. ... at at the end of the day is a jew vs Muslim war. Isrealies controle some of the most sacred site in the Muslim world and continually raid mosques. Arab muslims don't like that.

You can say it's not whites vs Arabs but it is .. you can say it's not jews vs Arabs but, again it is .

[activeStick]

While the focus is on Gaza, a tragic story covering only a small subset of the disgusting acts that some Palestinians are having to endure in the West Bank from Israeli settlers.

"To all the rats in the sewers of Qusra village, we are waiting for you and we will not mourn you," the text said.

"The day of revenge is coming."

Qusra was Wadi's village, in the northern part of the West Bank near Nablus. The funeral that day was for four Palestinians from the village. Three had been killed the previous day - Wednesday 11 October - after Israeli settlers entered Qusra and attacked a Palestinian family home. The fourth was shot dead in clashes with Israeli soldiers that followed.

According to the UN's humanitarian office, the week that followed Hamas's murderous attack was the deadliest for Palestinians in the West Bank since it began reporting fatalities in 2005, with at least 75 Palestinians killed by the Israeli military or settlers, and incidents of settler violence up from an average of three a day to eight.

Palestinian residents of the West Bank say that while the world's attention is drawn to the unfolding disaster in Gaza, Israeli settlers are taking advantage by entering villages and expelling, and even killing, Palestinian civilians.

In at least three cases, according to video footage or eyewitness testimony from villagers, the settlers have been wearing military uniforms or accompanied by the Israeli military in their attacks.

The first three men who died in Qusra had gone to defend a family in a house on the outskirts of the village, after settlers approached the house and began throwing rocks at it, several residents told the BBC.

They say the settlers then opened fire at the Palestinian neighbours who came to assist, killing three young men - Hasan Abu Sorour, 16, Obayda Abu Sorour, 17, and Musab Abu Reda, 25 - and gravely wounding several others. Moath Odeh, aged 21, was killed later in clashes with soldiers.

Among the wounded were a father and his six-year-old daughter, who lived at the house, who were shot in the face and in the abdomen respectively, according to two people who received the dead and wounded at a nearby medical clinic.

16, 17 and 6-years old. These are children.

There had already been a significant increase in violence by Israeli settlers this year, even before the Hamas attack, according to UN data, with more than 100 incidents reported each month and about 400 people driven from their land between January and August.

Israeli human rights organisation B'Tselem told the BBC that since the attack, it had documented "a concerted and organised effort by settlers to use the fact that the entire international and local attention is focused on Gaza and the north of Israel to try to seize land in the West Bank".

Partial data compiled by B'Tselem, covering the first six days after the Hamas attack, recorded at least 46 separate incidents in which it said settlers threatened, physically attacked or damaged the property of Palestinians in the West Bank.

In one of the most shocking incidents caught on film in the past week, an Israeli settler entered a Palestinian village called Al-Tuwani near Hebron and shot an unarmed Palestinian resident in the stomach at point blank range, while an Israeli soldier appeared to look on.

The incident began when two armed settlers, accompanied by a soldier, attacked a home on the outskirts of the village, according to three residents including the homeowner.

"Three Israelis came to my house, they were armed, and one was wearing the uniform of the army," said Musab Rabai, 36.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67173344

[transplant99]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1715734641087291444

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Keep drinking kool-aids. The world is never united, but those who matter, have never been this determined to finally solve it. USA sent two aircrafts for the first time ever, so did UK. New York mayor came to visit the scene of massacre. German leader came to visit Israel as well. Palestine is so isolated, that they had to bring a portrait of Putin, of all people, to their rally.

Everyone welcomed Ukrainian refugees with open arms. Syrian refugees? Not a warm welcome, but they were accepted. Palestinian refugees? No, thanks.

Palestine is a pariah state, like Russia and Iran, and is largely viewed as a proxy of the latter. Arab world apparently want nothing to do with them, let alone western world. Media will keep posting whatever narrative sells to their audience, but when it comes action, they won't even open the border for you.

This is changing in Canada and the UK (and the US a bit).

Canada and UK haven't declared Hamas responsible for the hospital attack like the US did (yet). They both said they are investigating it further.

Even the US they've changed their tune in the last few days to telling Israel to act smart and Biden said not to act like the US did post 9/11.

They are still both Israel supporters but its not the 100% support it was in the past. Support for Israel policies has dropped a lot even among Jewish people living in North America. Particularly left leaning and younger voters are less supportive of Israel policies. Suspect a lot of that is due to their government and policies towards Palestine rather than some anti-sematic jump.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/390737/...n-support.aspx