Israel declares war on Hamas

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Cappy

It's almost like this is an extremely complex issue and involves decades of cycles of abuse and atrocities which makes wholly defending one side rather difficult

I agree with that

[transplant99]

Sigh......so much bad is coming.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1715042972813676592

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

Has Israel ever tried to just BUY Gaza?

I mean, can't you just pay someone a bunch of money to leave or something? Wouldn't it be cheaper than missiles?

Fighting a war over Gaza hasn't worked, maybe we go to the barter system.

Selling Palestinian land to a Jew is punishable by death.

[Red Slinger]

Originally Posted by Sliver

If Israel's goal is peace, then their leadership is comprised of the dumbest group of morons to have ever existed by trying to violently achieve peace by killing Palestinians like fish in the barrel they put them in for the terrorist actions of Hamas. If I'm an average-Joe Palestinian right now, I'm not thinking about peace with Israel. There would have been some goodwill Israel could have worked with after October 7. Parachute some DVD players with scenes of the terrorist attack on Israel all over Gaza and for sure you'd touch some hearts of Palestinians. But nope. Let's bomb them until we get peace. Good plan, guys. Let me know over the next few decades how that worked out for you. Also, thanks for stressing out the world and amplifying the problems.

Israeli leadership has been awful especially since the rise of religious extremism (supported by US Evangelicals) has so heavily influenced Israeli elections. But...

Do you honestly expect anyone in the world, after seeing their fellow citizens being butchered by an organization whose sole premise for existence is the destruction of Israel and Jews in the Middle-East, to turn the other cheek? This seems naive at best. Is your point is that the Israel response should be tempered and relative to the attacks without inflicting unnecessary harm on Palestinian civilians? If so, you should say so. But to leave Hamas unaccountable will not only lead to more attacks on civilians from Hamas but also Hezbollah and every other ####-stain in the region.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

Israeli leadership has been awful especially since the rise of religious extremism (supported by US Evangelicals) has so heavily influenced Israeli elections. But...

Do you honestly expect anyone in the world, after seeing their fellow citizens being butchered by an organization whose sole premise for existence is the destruction of Israel and Jews in the Middle-East, to turn the other cheek? This seems naive at best. Is your point is that the Israel response should be tempered and relative to the attacks without inflicting unnecessary harm on Palestinian civilians? If so, you should say so. But to leave Hamas unaccountable will not only lead to more attacks on civilians from Hamas but also Hezbollah and every other ####-stain in the region.

Are you joking around with me? I said they should assassinate the entire Hamas leadership regardless of the country in which those leaders reside. I'm in favour of totally breaking international law and pretending I didn't see jack squat while Mossad agents go around killing Hamas members in any country on the planet.

Turn the other cheek? Fk that. Kill those responsible.

Yeah, go back and read my post. I'm not even going to go on lol.

Edit: Ack, hang tight dude. I don't think my post you quoted says what I said it says. Gimme one sec. Nobody freak out yet.

New edit. JFC, Red Slinger. You literally snipped out the part of my post I thought I had written. WTF, dude?

Originally Posted by Sliver

But you've just confused Palestinians with Hamas. They're not the same thing. Hamas leadership should be hunted down by Israel wherever they may be. I know countries aren't supposed to assassinate people in other countries, but I won't tell.

If Israel's goal is peace, then their leadership is comprised of the dumbest group of morons to have ever existed by trying to violently achieve peace by killing Palestinians like fish in the barrel they put them in for the terrorist actions of Hamas. If I'm an average-Joe Palestinian right now, I'm not thinking about peace with Israel. There would have been some goodwill Israel could have worked with after October 7. Parachute some DVD players with scenes of the terrorist attack on Israel all over Gaza and for sure you'd touch some hearts of Palestinians. But nope. Let's bomb them until we get peace. Good plan, guys. Let me know over the next few decades how that worked out for you. Also, thanks for stressing out the world and amplifying the problems.

Please don't do that again.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Sliver

But you've just confused Palestinians with Hamas. They're not the same thing. Hamas leadership should be hunted down by Israel wherever they may be. I know countries aren't supposed to assassinate people in other countries, but I won't tell.

If Israel's goal is peace, then their leadership is comprised of the dumbest group of morons to have ever existed by trying to violently achieve peace by killing Palestinians like fish in the barrel they put them in for the terrorist actions of Hamas. If I'm an average-Joe Palestinian right now, I'm not thinking about peace with Israel. There would have been some goodwill Israel could have worked with after October 7. Parachute some DVD players with scenes of the terrorist attack on Israel all over Gaza and for sure you'd touch some hearts of Palestinians. But nope. Let's bomb them until we get peace. Good plan, guys. Let me know over the next few decades how that worked out for you. Also, thanks for stressing out the world and amplifying the problems.

I have not. Hamas wants to kill Israelis, Israelis do not want to kill Palestianians. Although with this current government, that's blurred more than ever.

I don't think any goodwill could be worked out after October 7. Even with the most left wing Israeli government. What? Keep attacking people at festivals to bring Israel to the bargaining table.

[DFO]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Are you joking around with me? I said they should assassinate the entire Hamas leadership regardless of the country in which those leaders reside. I'm in favour of totally breaking international law and pretending I didn't see jack squat while Mossad agents go around killing Hamas members in any country on the planet.

Turn the other cheek? Fk that. Kill those responsible.

Yeah, go back and read my post. I'm not even going to go on lol.

Nah, bombing the crap of civilian infrastructure for the umpteenth time will surely work... As if there isn't a lesson in the results of the past actions

[WCW Nitro]

I don't think people understand the religious aspect of this from the Israeli side, the only way there will be peace is if the U.S. reins in Israel. Israel has made it very clear that this is greater than Hamas. And I think that is why the U. S. officials are making so many trips to Israel, they have become spooked about Israel taking Gaza.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

Israeli leadership has been awful especially since the rise of religious extremism (supported by US Evangelicals) has so heavily influenced Israeli elections. But...

Do you honestly expect anyone in the world, after seeing their fellow citizens being butchered by an organization whose sole premise for existence is the destruction of Israel and Jews in the Middle-East, to turn the other cheek? This seems naive at best. Is your point is that the Israel response should be tempered and relative to the attacks without inflicting unnecessary harm on Palestinian civilians? If so, you should say so. But to leave Hamas unaccountable will not only lead to more attacks on civilians from Hamas but also Hezbollah and every other ####-stain in the region.

I feel like that’s exactly what he said.

And, you know, by the same token, I’m not sure why people expect Palestinians to turn the other cheek either.

[Red Slinger]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

I don't think people understand the religious aspect of this from the Israeli side, the only way there will be peace is if the U.S. reins in Israel. Israel has made it very clear that this is greater than Hamas. And I think that is why the U. S. officials are making so many trips to Israel, they have become spooked about Israel taking Gaza.

The US can start by looking in the mirror and doing some self-reflection

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Sorry Lanny, Israel should take down the Iron Dome to have more deaths for you, and also remove the blockade on Gaza so Hamas and other Palestinian terrorists can resume their suicide bombings of cafes and schools. Restrictions of movements of Palestinians have occurred because of decades of war waging by various Palestinian groups, targeting mainly civilians. The PLO still has a pay per slay initiative which pays terrorists families compensation for the rest of their life. Arguments like this are devoid of historical knowledge which I know you do not have. If Israel did not place a blockade on Gaza, did not have Iron Dome, and if they did not restrict movements of Palestinians the number of Israelis killed would be far higher, which then I guess would make it more fair for you.

Hiot take. You do know there is a cause and effect thing in play here? If Palestinians were afforded the same rights and freedoms as all citizens, were not herded into apartheid zones, and were viewed as equals the threat would likely drop significantly. When you treat everyone the same and they are content in their life they have no reason to act out or be violent.

Originally Posted by blankall

Firstly, this is not UN data.

Yes it is. If you bothered to read the information you would notice the reference is to UN OCHA data.

The problem I see with this topic is not a split between those who support Israel and those who support Hamas - no one is supporting Hamas. The issue here is the split between those who think Israel is perfect and infallible in their strategies and actions versus those who see Israel's faults and areas where they could be better to find resolution. Israel has the control over how they treat people and the two-tiered system in place is deplorable. Changes here could dramatically change the incentive for those with an axe to grind.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I have not. Hamas wants to kill Israelis, Israelis do not want to kill Palestianians. Although with this current government, that's blurred more than ever.

I don't think any goodwill could be worked out after October 7. Even with the most left wing Israeli government. What? Keep attacking people at festivals to bring Israel to the bargaining table.

Nooooooo. I'm saying kill Hamas by assassinating them wherever they are on earth. Some it'll take days. Some you'll get in months. Some you'll get in years. But never forget and let them know they will be hunted until the end of time. Yes, I know that would be difficult, but rally your allies to help so as not to destabilize the world. Goodwill will work in your favour.

Let's now work on garnering sympathy from Palestinians. Start with showing them the violent carnage they inflicted on your people. I'm skeptical the average Palestinian would have known how fked up the attacks were. You're not going to have peace in Gaza if all the Palestinians hate you. Seems obvious, but not to half the people in this thread or Israeli leadership, but whatever.

With my plan you are punishing and killing those responsible, you're not making a bazillion more enemies in Gaza and elsewhere, and you're actually - you know - not acting like the terrorist monsters you hate.

But this way is cool, too. It always super works to perpetuate a cycle of violence and make more enemies of your neighbours. Great plan. Wonder why it's a perpetual cluster fk over there?

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

SomeUN OCHA numbers to consider. Since 2000 Hamas has killed 2,746 Israelis. Tragic and heinous. No one is defending Hamas and everyone is in agreement that Hamas should be hunted out of existence.

On the other side of the engagement Israel has killed 14,293 Palestinians during that same time. A ratio of 5.2 to 1. Is this not equally as tragic and heinous? These numbers do not include the death and suffering caused from the apartheid state the Palestinians are living under. When is this going to enter the larger conversation?

Why do the numbers matter at all?

Intent is always what matters. We have this in western society all the time. Someone can stab 5 people without intent, or murder 1 person with intent, and the outcome from our justice system will always be more severe to the person that only killed one person but with intent.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Are you joking around with me? I said they should assassinate the entire Hamas leadership regardless of the country in which those leaders reside. I'm in favour of totally breaking international law and pretending I didn't see jack squat while Mossad agents go around killing Hamas members in any country on the planet.

Turn the other cheek? Fk that. Kill those responsible.

Yeah, go back and read my post. I'm not even going to go on lol.

Edit: Ack, hang tight dude. I don't think my post you quoted says what I said it says. Gimme one sec. Nobody freak out yet.

New edit. JFC, Red Slinger. You literally snipped out the part of my post I thought I had written. WTF, dude?



Please don't do that again.

No matter how irreverent, I always try to remember to add -snip- before and after parts of someone's quote I remove usually for reducing wall-o-text quote size, or just the part I want to respond to. Subtly editing someone's quote to manipulate the meaning is bad juju.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Israelis do not want to kill Palestianians.

Course they don't.
They're just their little pet animals.
No incidents of the deliberate targeting and killing of civilians... ever.

As per a lot of your posts I don't know if you are simply trolling or believe what you post?

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

No matter how irreverent, I always try to remember to add -snip- before and after parts of someone's quote I remove usually for reducing wall-o-text quote size, or just the part I want to respond to. Subtly editing someone's quote to manipulate the meaning is bad juju.

Yeah, that was really crazy. I honestly think he should get an infraction for that. Officially reporting a post for the first time ever in all my years on CP. That was terrible form.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Course they don't.
They're just their little pet animals.
No incidents of the deliberate targeting and killing of civilians... ever.

As per a lot of your posts I don't know if you are simply trolling or believe what you post?

This is true, the Israelis do push the Palestinians to the brink thinking they have the power, they are the bullies. Sure, they will take a peace deal where the Palestinians get nothing. The only point that I was making was that they don't outright declare they want to kill all Palestinians the way Hamas wants to eliminate every Jew. But they get as close as possible.

[Red Slinger]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I feel like that’s exactly what he said.

I may have misinterpreted what he said. If so, my apologies to Sliver.

And, you know, by the same token, I’m not sure why people expect Palestinians to turn the other cheek either.

Yes, the Palestinians have a legitimate beef and honestly I don't know what I would do in their situation.

What makes me uneasy in this whole conversation is why the history of Gaza, the West Bank Settlements and other Israeli atrocities are only being raised in this thread which is specifically a response to the attacks on Oct.7. It feels a little like "they had it coming" type of response from some. One person even said that the "chickens had come home to roost". I recognize that we aren't expected to have an ongoing thread/conversation about the treatment of Palestinians here as it would be the second longest running thread in CP history (because E=NG always) but it still feels like many are using this as an opportunity to justify the horrible attacks on Oct.7.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Nooooooo. I'm saying kill Hamas by assassinating them wherever they are on earth. Some it'll take days. Some you'll get in months. Some you'll get in years. But never forget and let them know they will be hunted until the end of time. Yes, I know that would be difficult, but rally your allies to help so as not to destabilize the world. Goodwill will work in your favour.

Let's now work on garnering sympathy from Palestinians. Start with showing them the violent carnage they inflicted on your people. I'm skeptical the average Palestinian would have known how fked up the attacks were. You're not going to have peace in Gaza if all the Palestinians hate you. Seems obvious, but not to half the people in this thread or Israeli leadership, but whatever.

With my plan you are punishing and killing those responsible, you're not making a bazillion more enemies in Gaza and elsewhere, and you're actually - you know - not acting like the terrorist monsters you hate.

But this way is cool, too. It always super works to perpetuate a cycle of violence and make more enemies of your neighbours. Great plan. Wonder why it's a perpetual cluster fk over there?

If that were possible sure. If they are in plain sight with Hamas name tags on. Finding Hamas is like finding Viet Cong in the jungle. Some villages are going to be wiped out.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

I may have misinterpreted what he said. If so, my apologies to Sliver.

Yes, the Palestinians have a legitimate beef and honestly I don't know what I would do in their situation.

What makes me uneasy in this whole conversation is why the history of Gaza, the West Bank Settlements and other Israeli atrocities are only being raised in this thread which is specifically a response to the attacks on Oct.7. It feels a little like "they had it coming" type of response from some. One person even said that the "chickens had come home to roost". I recognize that we aren't expected to have an ongoing thread/conversation about the treatment of Palestinians here as it would be the second longest running thread in CP history (because E=NG always) but it still feels like many are using this as an opportunity to justify the horrible attacks on Oct.7.

Well, it was easy to misinterpret once you cut out the first paragraph. Apology accepted, though, man. All good.