Israel declares war on Hamas

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Pointman

I didn't say it was sarcasm. I said it was an attempt to sarcasm. But I wasn't sure. I'm still not sure. Responding with sarcasm to a post, that is factually correct, is so weird.

It was strawmannirg - when someone gets frustrated addressing what you’re actually saying, and chooses to score easy hits against an absurdly exaggerated argument that you never made.

If you wanted to play the same game, you could have responded with:

“Oh, so Israelis are just supposed to lay down their arms, welcome Hamas into their communities, and hope they aren’t all slaughtered in their homes?”

And the person who straw-manned your position would sputter indignantly that they never said that and you’re making things up.

[PepsiFree]

I actually just use sarcasm because I like triggering Cliff so hard he calls me mentally challenged.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

It was strawmannirg - when someone gets frustrated addressing what you’re actually saying, and chooses to score easy hits against an absurdly exaggerated argument that you never made.

The absolute irony

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I actually just use sarcasm because I like triggering Cliff so hard he calls me mentally challenged.

You might want to go back and check the post you’re referring to, because that’s not what I wrote.

You’ve brought this up several times now, so it seems I genuinely hurt your feelings. For that I’m sorry. But after your many assertions over the years that all the personal attacks on this site are just light-hearted banter that nobody should take seriously, I thought you’d be the last person to get upset by a quip aimed at you.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

You might want to go back and check the post you’re referring to, because that’s not what I wrote.

You’ve brought this up several times now, so it seems I genuinely hurt your feelings. For that I’m sorry. But after your many assertions over the years that all the personal attacks on this site are just light-hearted banter that nobody should take seriously, I thought you’d be the last person to get upset by a quip aimed at you.

Well, it’s absolutely what you wrote because they’re used interchangeably. It’s good you didn’t resort to the R-word, though.

The rest is just another “Yeah, but” Cliff post. There’s no hurt feelings, it just shows who you are and is another tick in the counter for the bottom level stuff we’ve seen in this thread. And if you really had some moral standard against “personal attacks,” which one would think by the way you go on and on about them and how the mods don’t ever stick up for you, you probably wouldn’t use them yourself. But alas, for some reason you do! The hypocrisy of Cliff is a layered mystery.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

And if you cant see a parallel between '82 and today when Israel was successful in pushing the PLO out of Lebanon but in the process created a far worse more powerful enemy in Hezbollah I am not sure what to say, Israel will undoubtedly be able to wipe out Hamas and push them out of Gaza but it will likely lead to even more violent groups that will spring up in their place

You may well have a point here. I don't know much about 1982 beyond the fact that Hezbollah was created as a response to Israel intervention into Lebanon. Although it was created in Iranian embassy, not as result of some anger of the people.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

And the person who straw-manned your position would sputter indignantly that they never said that and you’re making things up.

I think I'm coming around to the no-swearing and no personal attacks rules on CalgaryPuck. There's nothing I love more than the way we insult each other around here in these creative and roundabout ways to keep from getting sin-binned. It's my actual favourite. Kudos, Cliff..."sputter indignantly" is a totally awesome burn haha.

I'd have no way to get through the workday without this motley crew of characters.

[Azure]

The last 10 pages have been a perfect example of this situation and why it likely will never be resolved.

Hamas or other terrorist groups shoot a rocket that hits the hospital.
They come out and blame Israel for it and completely fabricate the number of fatalities.
The media, government officials, posters on CP, people all over the world are quick to blame Israel without knowing any facts other than that a terrorist organization said something.
Outrage happens all over the world. Protests, etc. Breeds more anger and hatred. How dare Israel do something like this!!! See, we all knew they are the bad ones!!!!

Israel almost immediately comes out and says it wasn't them.
Most of the people that were quick to blame Israel don't care. The anger and hate fires keep being stoked. Israel is bad! Evil!

Even Lanny joins the conversation by completely fabricating some kind of stupid story about rocket trajectory and other typical garbage. Laughable to watch happen, and honestly quite pathetic. Like with many others, zero room is left for the possibility that Israel didn't actually do it.

Israel comes out with direct evidence that proves it was a rocket.
Pictures & videos come out proving that the supposed mass casualty event was actually a lie. There was no bomb, 500 people didn't die, and the hospital didn't get destroyed.
US comes out and says the same thing.

And what is the result?

All the people who were wrong don't care about the truth. Don't care about the anger, hate and resentment that they helped make worse. Lanny and his made up posts about rockets that turned out to be literally made up don't actually mean anything on a bigger scale, however we did have media organizations (NYT), members of Congress, multiple Arab nations, etc who were happy to pile on the blame. Damn Israel!

And in the end, it just keeps the hate and anger going. Certainly not towards the terrorist scum that actually you know shot the rocket at the hospital, but towards Israel.

Sad to watch happen, but not surprising, as there is a reason all this just keeps happening over and over again.

[Red Slinger]

nm

[Lanny_McDonald]

It's so awesome that I live rent free in Azure's head. Lot's of room too.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

It's so awesome that I live rent free in Azure's head. Lot's of room too.

We're on a roll today, team. Let's keep it going.

[DFO]

IMO afc wimbledon easily has the best takes in this thread. It's really unfortunate that leadership on either side has no interest moving off their long term goals.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

And if you cant see a parallel between '82 and today when Israel was successful in pushing the PLO out of Lebanon but in the process created a far worse more powerful enemy in Hezbollah I am not sure what to say, Israel will undoubtedly be able to wipe out Hamas and push them out of Gaza but it will likely lead to even more violent groups that will spring up in their place

I understand your perspective but don't agree. Israel can do everything right, and Iran and the other usual suspects will continue their hatred and violence. Just like the recent rocket attacks, it just cranks up the hate and the truth never matters. The propaganda, through schools and media and the danger of speaking out prevent any solutions in most of the world that continues with this hatred.

The entire world must understand what is happening and work together to stop this from continuing. Not just for Israel or Palestinians, there are numerous other countries on the front line that unfortunately don't have the IDF to protect them.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Azure

The last 10 pages have been a perfect example of this situation and why it likely will never be resolved.

Hamas or other terrorist groups shoot a rocket that hits the hospital.
They come out and blame Israel for it and completely fabricate the number of fatalities.
The media, government officials, posters on CP, people all over the world are quick to blame Israel without knowing any facts other than that a terrorist organization said something.
Outrage happens all over the world. Protests, etc. Breeds more anger and hatred. How dare Israel do something like this!!! See, we all knew they are the bad ones!!!!

Israel almost immediately comes out and says it wasn't them.
Most of the people that were quick to blame Israel don't care. The anger and hate fires keep being stoked. Israel is bad! Evil!

Even Lanny joins the conversation by completely fabricating some kind of stupid story about rocket trajectory and other typical garbage. Laughable to watch happen, and honestly quite pathetic. Like with many others, zero room is left for the possibility that Israel didn't actually do it.

Israel comes out with direct evidence that proves it was a rocket.
Pictures & videos come out proving that the supposed mass casualty event was actually a lie. There was no bomb, 500 people didn't die, and the hospital didn't get destroyed.
US comes out and says the same thing.

And what is the result?

All the people who were wrong don't care about the truth. Don't care about the anger, hate and resentment that they helped make worse. Lanny and his made up posts about rockets that turned out to be literally made up don't actually mean anything on a bigger scale, however we did have media organizations (NYT), members of Congress, multiple Arab nations, etc who were happy to pile on the blame. Damn Israel!

And in the end, it just keeps the hate and anger going. Certainly not towards the terrorist scum that actually you know shot the rocket at the hospital, but towards Israel.

Sad to watch happen, but not surprising, as there is a reason all this just keeps happening over and over again.

I think this is a very fair post and you're correct, some on each side are dug in and once "news" comes out, it doesn't matter later if it needs to be (and subsequently is) corrected.

The same thing happened at the start of the war when the west was reporting "40 beheaded babies". People on this forum were outraged (rightly so), Hamas was quick to deny they did it, but nobody believed them because they're on the other side and "reputable sources" for those in the west such as CNN, MSNBC, etc. took the story and ran with it. In fact, Joe Biden even said he never imagined he'd ever see photos of beheaded babies suggesting he saw photo evidence.

"See!! We all knew they were the bad ones!!"

But then it was verified that it was all fake news. The WH walked back Biden's statements and some news outlets walked back their earlier claims, while others just left it. And similar to your example, online and on this very board, some continued to bring up the 40 beheaded babies, just because.

And in the end, it just keeps the hate and anger going. Palestinians lives are not equivalent to other human lives (we feel this way by referring to them as animals that live in raw sewage). Sad to watch happen, but not surprising.

[Geraldsh]

This thread is a microcosm of the whole thing and the only movement has been a few wiggles of the goalposts.

[curves2000]

The behind the scenes talk, conversations, strategy and political, economic chatter must be fascinating. Let's be real, there is a very small amount of actual power brokers who are dealing with this at the mirco level and they are going back and forth on a lot of things.

Obviously there is a huge amount of suffering, death, destruction and more that has occurred but what is really happening behind the scenes and how it's shaping up must be something else.

[Titan2]

Originally Posted by Sliver

We're on a roll today, team. Let's keep it going.

Originally Posted by DFO

IMO afc wimbledon easily has the best takes in this thread. It's really unfortunate that leadership on either side has no interest moving off their long term goals.

We were doing so well then ol' Doesn't Floss Often goes and wrecks it... cumon let's get creative folks.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by activeStick

I think this is a very fair post and you're correct, some on each side are dug in and once "news" comes out, it doesn't matter later if it needs to be (and subsequently is) corrected.

The same thing happened at the start of the war when the west was reporting "40 beheaded babies". People on this forum were outraged (rightly so), Hamas was quick to deny they did it, but nobody believed them because they're on the other side and "reputable sources" for those in the west such as CNN, MSNBC, etc. took the story and ran with it. In fact, Joe Biden even said he never imagined he'd ever see photos of beheaded babies suggesting he saw photo evidence.

"See!! We all knew they were the bad ones!!"

But then it was verified that it was all fake news. The WH walked back Biden's statements and some news outlets walked back their earlier claims, while others just left it. And similar to your example, online and on this very board, some continued to bring up the 40 beheaded babies, just because.

And in the end, it just keeps the hate and anger going. Palestinians lives are not equivalent to other human lives (we feel this way by referring to them as animals that live in raw sewage). Sad to watch happen, but not surprising.

Your issue is how the dead babies were murdered? That is what your point is? People shouldn't be shocked or angry? You understand what fog of war refers to?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Your issue is how the dead babies were murdered? That is what your point is? People shouldn't be shocked or angry? You understand what fog of war refers to?

That’s definitely what he was saying. Nailed it as usual. Go ahead and call him an anti-semite now so we can close the loop on this back and forth.

[undercoverbrother]

114 pages

resolutions soone