[Rumour] Coyotes owner put in letter of intent to buy 41 acres of land in Mesa, Arizona

[Muta]

For me, I just don't go to games anymore unless they're free. They're super expensive, and unless it's a REALLY special event that I need a ticket for, everything else in life is just too expensive right now which gets my first attention. I can watch the Flames on TV for free for the same result instead of spending into the three digits for a single game. Doubt I'm the only one that sees it this way too.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by Muta

For me, I just don't go to games anymore unless they're free. They're super expensive, and unless it's a REALLY special event that I need a ticket for, everything else in life is just too expensive right now which gets my first attention. I can watch the Flames on TV for free for the same result instead of spending into the three digits for a single game. Doubt I'm the only one that sees it this way too.

A beer doesn't cost $13 from your couch either

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

A beer doesn't cost $13 from your couch either

You can get a whole case of that Original 16 for $13 or 24 of Beer from PC Brand for $13 it probably tastes the same.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

Caps shut out streak broke yesterday or day before after a few hundred games. Last year it was the penguins streak broke.

Sharks last night apparently had 10k people at the game. Buffalo 11k.

The NHL has made going to games unaffordable and squeezed their fans across the aboard. The chickens are coming home to roost , or whatever the saying goes.

Originally Posted by Muta

For me, I just don't go to games anymore unless they're free. They're super expensive, and unless it's a REALLY special event that I need a ticket for, everything else in life is just too expensive right now which gets my first attention. I can watch the Flames on TV for free for the same result instead of spending into the three digits for a single game. Doubt I'm the only one that sees it this way too.

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

A beer doesn't cost $13 from your couch either

Really it's a combination of all these things.

1) Economy is not in good shape and people don't have the discretionary income

2) In person experience isn't good enough to justify spending the money to go to a game in-person when every game is televised in HD. No real benefit to going in-person to a random Wednesday night game.

3) NHL has priced out their tickets and concessions outside of the range that the average fan wants to pay.

4) The NHL has failed in creating fans in that 18-35 range that generally are the people that are more likely to buy the walk up tickets as more of a social outing or something to do.

NHL is really falling behind the NFL and NBA, and even MLB and MLS are making more strides in attracting fans and especially younger audiences. They really need to get some new ideas and people into leadership positions...I don't even think Bettman has done a terrible job but at some point you just need fresh ideas and new voices in leadership positions to grow.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I don’t recall seeing this reported before “They have also set a midseason deadline for the Coyotes to finalize plans for a new arena.” They appears to refer to the NHL in this article.

https://cronkitenews.azpbs.org/2023/...-arena-search/

Seems the end is near. Can these jokers put together an arena deal in 2 months?

Checked the article, and it's definitely Bettman and Daly who have set the deadline.

What jumped out at me was this:

Gutierrez also cited record ticket revenue for the club’s first season at Mullett Arena as part of the logic for remaining in the East Valley. The record comes despite Mullett Arena having over 10,000 fewer seats available than the Coyotes’ former home in Glendale.

This is truly gonzo. They moved to a 5,000-seat college arena and their gate receipts went up! Speaks to how bad a draw they were in Glendale.

I imagine if they don't get shovels in the ground on a new arena before the end of this season, it's all over in Arizona.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

NHL is really falling behind the NFL and NBA, and even MLB and MLS are making more strides in attracting fans and especially younger audiences. They really need to get some new ideas and people into leadership positions...I don't even think Bettman has done a terrible job but at some point you just need fresh ideas and new voices in leadership positions to grow.

Flames fans: “The NHL needs to look to the success of other pro leagues in marketing the game better and expanding its fanbase.”

NHL expands into non-traditional markets to grow the TV market

Flames fans: “No, not that way!”

NHL imitates other leagues by spotlighting its superstars.

Flames fans: “No, not that way!”

NHL follows the lead of other leagues by engaging casual fans with sports betting.

Flames fans: “No, not that way!”


Not picking on you, SuperMatt. But long-time, traditional NHL fans typically don’t take well to the NHL’s efforts to grow the league’s fanbase.

[Erick Estrada]

The NHL definitely did right by being the first team in Las Vegas. Seattle looks like it will be a good move as well for the league. In fact NHL expansion in the US has gone much better than I would have anticipated a few decades back. I personally don't understand the infatuation of CP with the Coyotes situation. If the league needs the market to prop up their TV deals then it's good enough for me regardless of what arena they play in.

[White Out 403]

One thing that shocked me was that apparently, outside Winnipeg, which has a sad 14%, the Canadian teams rely on 46-56% of their season ticket sales from corporate sponsors.

So the conclusion I draw is that tickets are artificially expensive and unaffordable for the "every-man" and businesses are propping up seat sales. If you look at the garbage atmosphere Toronto had for their home opener where Matthews got a hattrick, it kind of makes sense.

Over a long enough period of time, if you don't have kids going to games, they wont grow up to either be a fan or go in person. My favourite memories as a kid growing up sports-wise are going to Jets games with my parents and Bombers games. It's all bigger than life when your little, and leaves a lasting impression. Nowadays families can't go often or at all because it's insanely expensive.

This is pure greed on owners part. And the chickens will come home to roost. They already are.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

One thing that shocked me was that apparently, outside Winnipeg, which has a sad 14%, the Canadian teams rely on 46-56% of their season ticket sales from corporate sponsors.

So the conclusion I draw is that tickets are artificially expensive and unaffordable for the "every-man" and businesses are propping up seat sales.

You’re not wrong. But this has been the case for 20 years now. The NHL live experience is a corporate schmooze fest. Box seats and corporate tickets prop up the whole enterprise. This is why Houston is a far more attractive market for the league than Quebec - not because there are a lot of hockey fans in Houston, but because its home to a lot of corporations who will buy seasons tickets to juice clients with a night out.

The average hockey fan is relevant to the league only insofar as they add to TV viewer numbers and buy merchandise. And since nobody under 40 watches live sports broadcasts anymore, it’s not hard to see why the league faces real headwinds.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

You’re not wrong. But this has been the case for 20 years now. The NHL live experience is a corporate schmooze fest. Box seats and corporate tickets prop up the whole enterprise.

This factors into modern arena design as well. The idea in recent years is to cram as much corporate opportunity as possible into the place first and foremost. Several years ago, Brian Burke identified this regarding Calgary's old/new arena situation as well.

The common fan will almost always now take a backseat to corporate interests in almost all modern sports stadia design.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

You’re not wrong. But this has been the case for 20 years now. The NHL live experience is a corporate schmooze fest. Box seats and corporate tickets prop up the whole enterprise. This is why Houston is a far more attractive market for the league than Quebec - not because there are a lot of hockey fans in Houston, but because its home to a lot of corporations who will buy seasons tickets to juice clients with a night out.

The average hockey fan is relevant to the league only insofar as they add to TV viewer numbers and buy merchandise. And since nobody under 40 watches live sports broadcasts anymore, it’s not hard to see why the league faces real headwinds.

Yes I agree with you. I don't think were taking differing stances, what I'm saying is that the long term result of whoring your business out to corporations is that you don't replenish your fan base. Joey lunchy-pale, who the league obviously despises, isn't coming to games anymore. While the league may think hes a low spending bum, his kids will likely not grow up to care about the league, or, enough to go spend money on games. This all means fewer and fewer fans over time.

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Checked the article, and it's definitely Bettman and Daly who have set the deadline.

What jumped out at me was this:



This is truly gonzo. They moved to a 5,000-seat college arena and their gate receipts went up! Speaks to how bad a draw they were in Glendale.

I imagine if they don't get shovels in the ground on a new arena before the end of this season, it's all over in Arizona.

Yeah, Glendale was the DUMBEST decision ever. Only Steve Ellman thought that was a great idea.

80-90% of "Hockey" fans are east of Central Ave.

West Valley is largely hispanic, redneck lower class or mid class. That's just the demographics of this area, not a whole lot of expendable income OR people who are hockey fans or the base fans you need. The games are inaccessible during weekdays if you have a family 100% if you live in the east valley

Also, a 14,000 seat arena if that is what is built is the ideal size for the NHL in general. I have my doubts Meruelo and team will be able to pull it off but I don't doubt their intent and financial ability to do it. But if their people can't..

I still think a knock on the Suns door is coming and an "encouraged" sale to them will occur. Mat Ishbia and his crew will be interested for many reasons. But the team isn't technically for sale.

That said. I give it a 60% chance Meruelo gets it done

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jordan!

You're right, the Hockey fans in the valley are Mesa/Chandler/Gilbert/Scottsdale

The Tempe land was easily the most valuable which is why they made that choice #1.

Several viable plan B's in the works

Originally Posted by Jordan!

Yeah, Glendale was the DUMBEST decision ever. Only Steve Ellman thought that was a great idea.

80-90% of "Hockey" fans are east of Central Ave.

West Valley is largely hispanic, redneck lower class or mid class. That's just the demographics of this area, not a whole lot of expendable income OR people who are hockey fans or the base fans you need. The games are inaccessible during weekdays if you have a family 100% if you live in the east valley

Also, a 14,000 seat arena if that is what is built is the ideal size for the NHL in general. I have my doubts Meruelo and team will be able to pull it off but I don't doubt their intent and financial ability to do it. But if their people can't..

I still think a knock on the Suns door is coming and an "encouraged" sale to them will occur. Mat Ishbia and his crew will be interested for many reasons. But the team isn't technically for sale.

That said. I give it a 60% chance Meruelo gets it done

I sense a change in tune from you Jordan.

This whole "multiple LOI's" strategy always sounded to me like amateurs who had no clue what they were doing but you were optimistic. Has something changed?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The NHL definitely did right by being the first team in Las Vegas. Seattle looks like it will be a good move as well for the league. In fact NHL expansion in the US has gone much better than I would have anticipated a few decades back. I personally don't understand the infatuation of CP with the Coyotes situation. If the league needs the market to prop up their TV deals then it's good enough for me regardless of what arena they play in.

It is odd to me as well. Are these people from a city that would have a team but for AZ being in the league? Doubt it.

[Strange Brew]

Oh yes. The old "wading into a thread to question why people are talking about something". A CP tradition

Expansion, franchise relocation, new teams. These are topics that fans of a league will enjoy discussing. The fact that a pro sports team plays in a 5000 seat arena is kind of newsworthy too.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Oh yes. The old "wading into a thread to question why people are talking about something". A CP tradition

Expansion, franchise relocation, new teams. These are topics that fans of a league will enjoy discussing. The fact that a pro sports team plays in a 5000 seat arena is kind of newsworthy too.

Oh, yes. The old "how dare you question my outrage over something that doesn't affect anyone here".

I do question why people are talking about this. And forgive me, but I don't see the enjoyment you refer to here - only indignation that the league is trying to keep an almost 30 year old team in a city.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Oh yes. The old "wading into a thread to question why people are talking about something". A CP tradition

Expansion, franchise relocation, new teams. These are topics that fans of a league will enjoy discussing. The fact that a pro sports team plays in a 5000 seat arena is kind of newsworthy too.

It's not just this 12 page thread in a Flames forum. There's been several long threads regarding the Coyotes over the years. Only the Oilers and Canucks in the day exceed the attention the Coyotes do in this forum. It's weird to me given they aren't a rival team.

It was newsworthy last season when they moved into the 5000 seat arena but a year later it's old news. For whatever reason Canadian fans hate on the franchise like it's taken something from Canada like a team in Quebec City, Hamilton, or Toronto. The reality is that the Coyotes have nothing to do with those markets not having teams. The viability of those markets and politics (in the case of another team in Toronto) is why Canada will not get any more teams. For all I care they could play in an arena with no seats and as long as it helps the NHL get the TV deals they want then as a fan of a small market Canadian team that's all that really matters to me.

[Monahammer]

Inflation highest it's been in decades, interest rates crushing any residual money (and much much more) for the vast majority of canadians, literally an affordability crisis, and people are surprised that attendance is effected?

Yeah, people don't have any money left to spend $200/ seat during week nights. This is in fact one of the precise purposes of raising interest rates.

[kobasew19]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

You can get a whole case of that Original 16 for $13 or 24 of Beer from PC Brand for $13 it probably tastes the same.

Original 16 beer is horrible. They need something else at the dome.

[GFG#1]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

Caps shut out streak broke yesterday or day before after a few hundred games. Last year it was the penguins streak broke.

Sharks last night apparently had 10k people at the game. Buffalo 11k.

The NHL has made going to games unaffordable and squeezed their fans across the aboard. The chickens are coming home to roost , or whatever the saying goes.

Will these low attendance rates affect the anticipated cap increase next year, if they don't pick up? Lots of teams really need and are banking on that increase, but man if it doesn't go up Edmonton is going to really have a hard time icing a roster in Pissy's last year...