2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[Sec214]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Conroy, unlike the fans, needs to give it more than two games

[Freeway]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Lindholm's current contract is still a huge bargain today. With 50% retention, name a contending team that wouldn't want to add another #1 centre who is reliable on both sides of the puck?



AFAIK, Lindholm's cap hit at the deadline will be (assuming I have the math right) $1.1 million (before retention). (4.850million)x(42/185). (cap hit)x(42 days left in the season divided by a 185 day season).



Name a contender that can't squeeze 550k at the deadline somehow after the Flames retain. That's a ridiculous add for Colorado, for Tampa, for Carolina, NOT for Edmonton, for New Jersey, for whomever else considers themselves a contender. I would imagine that the bidding war would be fairly large.


If Hanifin doesn't re-sign by then, then he would be in the same boat with teams adding him onto the roster for below league minimum at the deadline (with the Flames using their second slot on max retention).


Both would probably return a healthy injection of picks and a good prospect.



I am on the fence on whether or not the Flames should re-sign Lindholm. I really am. I have stated many times that I prefer having the Flames enter into a formal rebuild as I don't really see a contender here. However, I also think that simply doing an excellent job through the draft and prioritizing that can lead to building a contender without having to tear it down, and I do feel Calgary is a good enough organization in terms of drafting and development to do that.



At this point, I just want to see what Lindholm would actually return as an asset that brings a cap hit under a league-minimum deal (assuming, once again, that I have my math right). There would be zero playoff-bound teams (and a few that are close hoping to sneak in) that wouldn't call Conroy.

It's a 192-day season, so Lindholm's $4.85M deal would have a pro-rated $1.06M cap hit if traded at the deadline. $530,000 at full retention.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Hackey

What are the options you see?

I think if you make a hockey trade you 100% downgrade. No way you get an equal or better player to Lindholm making 5 million. I think trying to go that route would be foolish. They did that with Tkachuk and Toffoli and you downgraded twice. That seems like a treading water strategy.

A futures deal is likely a downgrade as well but at least has more potential for a home run and also gives a longer runway to try and build around those pieces. But if that's your strategy then actually commit to that strategy and go all in on it. Trying to win now and retool is likely counter productive.

Do you see another path Conroy could take?

I think you’re providing an answer to a question I didn’t ask. Conroy has options. Whether they are a downgrade or an upgrade is a different question. It also doesn’t matter what options I see because I’m not in the room with Conroy. Like you and nearly everyone else here, I have no first hand knowledge of what the option’s actually are. It’s probably a reasonable assumption to make that the Flames have received offers on their UFA’s, or they’ve at least had discussions about their availability and what they might be worth to other teams.

I think you’re right though that it’s hard to see a trade out there where Lindholm is dealt for a $5M player of equal or better performance. I don’t see that happening.

I will say I think this belief that’s teams are either A) contending or B) rebuilding is simplistic. Every team is building in some form or fashion. Whether you’re Vegas or San Jose every team is building. It seems to me a lot of people think it’s one or the other rebuilding or contending, and there’s nothing in between.

Can the Flames remain competitive and ‘rebuild’, yes, absolutely. An example of this is what the Canucks did with Horvat. They traded him for a package that included a 1st, prospect. And a top 9 player. They subsequently traded that 1st for a top 4 D who is a valuable piece in their line up right now. Is that a net win or loss? Time will tell.

The Flames could do the same, or similar. They could trade pending UFA’s for draft/prospect capital to then turn into players. In a sense this is exactly what they did in both Hamilton trades. It’s been floated by myself and others, what if the Flames trade Hanifin for a future based package and flip some of this assets to Philadelphia for Konekny? Or, the Flames could keep the acquired picks and prospects. Those are options.

[dino7c]

You guys may have noticed there are almost no trades in the NHL at the moment and even in the summer players like Taylor Hall were being given away.

Conroy's best option right now is to let things play out for a while. If there are moves to be made it will be closer to the deadline.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Conroy, unlike the fans, needs to give it more than two games

Honestly, I am cautiously optimistic after the first two games.


The team seems mistake prone at the moment, but the individual efforts have been there. You can tell that they are adjusting to a new style of play which I think will just take some time until things start to click. They also need to stay out of the box more, which should come as the mistakes diminish.

Or maybe it doesn't click, but we should at least give it until December before figuring out if this rendition will be a dud.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Freeway

It's a 192-day season, so Lindholm's $4.85M deal would have a pro-rated $1.06M cap hit if traded at the deadline. $530,000 at full retention.

That's insane. That should command an absolute ransom at the deadline for a contender.

[browna]

I don't think the Flames will be out of it come the trade deadline March 1, with still 23 games to play.

If Lindholm is humming and haahing when Conroy checks in with his party in a month, you move him with the right offer, ideally to a team theta lost a center to injury, whenever.

[bluejays]

There isn't a reason to panic for any team right now. Rosters across the league are pretty set, so dealing a guy like Lindholm has to wait until the deadline. There are virtually no moves that happen this early in the season unless someone is an RFA. Team wise, they're looking alright, though I've been totally skeptical of Markstrom the past couple seasons. So far he's looking better than the past 1.5 years, so that's nice. If I'm wrong I'm wrong but I'm skeptical he can just snap out of it.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by browna

I don't think the Flames will be out of it come the trade deadline March 1, with still 23 games to play.

If Lindholm is humming and haahing when Conroy checks in with his party in a month, you move him with the right offer, ideally to a team theta lost a center to injury, whenever.

But why trade him before the deadline for a crappy return when you can command complete attention at the deadline with a $500k star centre for contenders to bid over? Seems like a panic move and terrible asset management.

[genetic_phreek]

Originally Posted by jayswin

But why trade him before the deadline for a crappy return when you can command complete attention at the deadline with a $500k star centre for contenders to bid over? Seems like a panic move and terrible asset management.

If we were able to move Lindholm right now then I wouldn't see it as a panic move. If you wait for the deadline and other teams wait and not giving you a good offer, you risk having to take whatever you can get. The right move is to trade the player when you don't need to, not when you absolutely need to.

[Strange Brew]

There should be a bidding war for Lindholm at the deadline. It shouldn’t matter that “you have to” deal him if multiple teams are interested.

We have occasionally seen some big deals in season so if you’re going to move on, you start the conversations now. Take injury risk off the table if you trade him sooner.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Can the Flames remain competitive and ‘rebuild’, yes, absolutely. An example of this is what the Canucks did with Horvat. They traded him for a package that included a 1st, prospect. And a top 9 player. They subsequently traded that 1st for a top 4 D who is a valuable piece in their line up right now. Is that a net win or loss? Time will tell.

I'd be disappointed if the Flames traded Lindholm for a 3rd liner and a top 4 dman. That isn't rebuilding that's treading water.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Hackey

I'd be disappointed if the Flames traded Lindholm for a 3rd liner and a top 4 dman. That isn't rebuilding that's treading water.

Well, it seems you are looking at that example in a vacuum.

First of all, the Canucks didn’t get a 3rd liner and a top 4D, they got a top 9 player, a prospect, and the 17th overall pick in what has been considered as the deepest draft in a decade, or more? What the Canucks decided to do with that pick was their choice. That’s hockey currency. The Canucks spent it but they also could have put it in the bank. That’s what I’m talking about when it comes to Conroy’s options. He could load up on draft capital or he could use that capital to acquire NHL ready players or NHL players. Or, he could resign some/all of the pending UFA’s. simply put, Conroy has options.

If the Flames traded Lindholm for a similar package would you be upset? If they traded him to Columbus or Detroit for a package of similar value, that would upset you?

I’m confused because a lot of people who seem to be clamouring for a rebuild are also the ones who are complaining about the team’s current state even if it is leading them into the rebuild they, ironically, desperately want.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Well, it seems you are looking at that example in a vacuum.

First of all, the Canucks didn’t get a 3rd liner and a top 4D, they got a top 9 player, a prospect, and the 17th overall pick in what has been considered as the deepest draft in a decade, or more? What the Canucks decided to do with that pick was their choice. That’s hockey currency. The Canucks spent it but they also could have put it in the bank. That’s what I’m talking about when it comes to Conroy’s options. He could load up on draft capital or he could use that capital to acquire NHL ready players or NHL players. Or, he could resign some/all of the pending UFA’s. simply put, Conroy has options.

If the Flames traded Lindholm for a similar package would you be upset? If they traded him to Columbus or Detroit for a package of similar value, that would upset you?

I’m confused because a lot of people who seem to be clamouring for a rebuild are also the ones who are complaining about the team’s current state even if it is leading them into the rebuild they, ironically, desperately want.

It’s because they seem to think that the Flames can get better futures if they focus on prospects/picks which is never true. They have to go for a player like Sillinger and hope on the small chance he breaks out like Suzuki. The teams who want Lindholm and Hanifin are not going to trade a top center or defense prospect for them.

[robertsfanatic]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Honestly, I am cautiously optimistic after the first two games.


The team seems mistake prone at the moment, but the individual efforts have been there. You can tell that they are adjusting to a new style of play which I think will just take some time until things start to click. They also need to stay out of the box more, which should come as the mistakes diminish.

Or maybe it doesn't click, but we should at least give it until December before figuring out if this rendition will be a dud.

agreed and sorry if this has been posted already but isn't there a rule of thumb around new coaches? like it takes 17 games to adjust?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by jayswin

But why trade him before the deadline for a crappy return when you can command complete attention at the deadline with a $500k star centre for contenders to bid over? Seems like a panic move and terrible asset management.

That’s a reasonable stance if the Flames are committed to dealing Lindholm if he doesn’t sign a new contract.

But I’m not especially confident management will make that decision if the Flames are in a playoff spot or 4 points or less out at the deadline.

[Enoch Root]

The market is quiet right now, because all teams are trying to determine exactly what they have (and don't have). That takes about 20 games typically, or around US Thanksgiving. By that point, it starts to become clear what they've got, and whether their team is worth adding to, or needs a fix/addition. At that point, the market for Lindholm and Hanifin will start to open up (assuming they haven't signed).

That doesn't mean the Flames should rush out and move them for the first offer that comes along, but it does open the door to discussions that could turn into a package that the Flames like. And if not, demand will continue, and grow, right up to the deadline, when both of them would be very sought-after. The problem with waiting until the deadline is that the returns become entirely picks and prospects, and the Flames are looking for players that are ready now, or soon. My guess is that they will move at least one of them by January or February, again assuming they haven't signed already.

[MrMike]

Some team with playoff/cup intentions will have a major injury to a top 4 dman/top 2 center and at that time Hainifin/Lindholm will look real enticing to save their season. No rush.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Hackey

I'd be disappointed if the Flames traded Lindholm for a 3rd liner and a top 4 dman. That isn't rebuilding that's treading water.

What do you expect for him?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The market is quiet right now, because all teams are trying to determine exactly what they have (and don't have). That takes about 20 games typically, or around US Thanksgiving. By that point, it starts to become clear what they've got, and whether their team is worth adding to, or needs a fix/addition. At that point, the market for Lindholm and Hanifin will start to open up (assuming they haven't signed).

That doesn't mean the Flames should rush out and move them for the first offer that comes along, but it does open the door to discussions that could turn into a package that the Flames like. And if not, demand will continue, and grow, right up to the deadline, when both of them would be very sought-after. The problem with waiting until the deadline is that the returns become entirely picks and prospects, and the Flames are looking for players that are ready now, or soon. My guess is that they will move at least one of them by January or February, again assuming they haven't signed already.

Didn't rasta say they have an internal Christmas deadline or something?

I'm sure that's not in concrete, but it might speak to a mid season, pre deadline, fish or cut bait.