Israel declares war on Hamas

[burn_this_city]

At the end of the day, when the body count is 5-10x one way vs another, a large group of people on here will completely justify it to themselves and everyone else. The manner of killing seems to matter a whole lot more than the sum total. Its a weird mass delusion that I haven’t really seen anywhere else with anything else.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Oh look, Rebel "reporters" spreading hate and bull####. Surprise surprise. How the #### is it our government allows them to parade around as media again? Particularly Menzies, that bigoted sack of slimy feces. ####ing disgraceful. Maybe stop following people on Xitter who share this trash.

LOL.....Im curious what it is from this reporter that he said which you are classifying as "hate and bull####"?

What about, you know, what this Canadian said while wearing AK47 depictions in her ears?

Any comment there?

And I dont care where actual footage of interviews come from...would you be less concerned if this lady was speaking this stuff into a CBC microphone instead?

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by transplant99

LOL.....Im curious what it is from this reporter that he said which you are classifying as "hate and bull####"?

What about, you know, what this Canadian said while wearing AK47 depictions in her ears?

Any comment there?

And I dont care where actual footage of interviews come from...would you be less concerned if this lady was speaking this stuff into a CBC microphone instead?

They found an angry person, baited her, and then posted the reaction as a way to rile up the Pro-apartheid mob.

"See, these people are animals! This is what Israel is fighting!"

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by transplant99

And I dont care where actual footage of interviews come from...would you be less concerned if this lady was speaking this stuff into a CBC microphone instead?

It’d certainly be a lot easier to trust the source and the authenticity of the interview if it came from a reputable source that hasn’t been repeatedly responsible for large scale misinformation campaigns and propaganda. That’s how media literacy works.

Rebel is great if you want to confirm alt-right beliefs and convince moderates that you’re spreading misinformation. If I wanted to actually influence people or share information anyone would take seriously, I would use a reliable source.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by transplant99

LOL.....Im curious what it is from this reporter that he said which you are classifying as "hate and bull####"?

What about, you know, what this Canadian said while wearing AK47 depictions in her ears?

Any comment there?

And I dont care where actual footage of interviews come from...would you be less concerned if this lady was speaking this stuff into a CBC microphone instead?

Sigh. The beheaded babies thing. A real reporter would know that was debunked, and you can be sure he knew, too. He said it keep the BS going. Tell me this, would a real reporter be promoting a "canadastandswithisreal.com" website link to their organization? Ever seen the BBC do this? CBC? CTV? Global? No, because that's not what news organizations do. So now that we have established they have a bias, and an agenda beyond reporting the news, why the #### would you subject yourself to that? It's admitting you could prefer lies and being mislead than the truth from your news, and at that point, all hope is lost.

Frankly that interview is telling of many ways, but this "reporter" manages to connect with none of them. Maybe listen and try to understand why she feels that way. And no, I'm not agreeing with her views.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by _Q_

They found an angry person, baited her, and then posted the reaction as a way to rile up the Pro-apartheid mob.

"See, these people are animals! This is what Israel is fighting!"

Uh huh.

[Pointman]

While it may look to you like Hamas is knocked down and Israel just keeps punching a defenseless opponent, this is not really the case. Hamas keeps launching rockets from Gaza into Israel more than every hour. As of right now it's 6:16PM in Israel and I counted 23 alerts in my feed just for today.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Uh huh.

??

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Uh huh.

You don't think it is an accident they spoke to the person with ak47 ear rings?



Man, it's wild just how poor people are at detecting and analyzing bull####. Depressing, really. But does explain a lot.

[_Q_]

Is this OK? This is from a legitimate news agency.

Israeli reservist calling for ethnic cleansing of palestinians.
https://www.aljazeera.com/program/ne...dest-reservist

A jew calling for the elimination of an entire population.

What a time to be alive.

[monkeyman]

That interview actually changed my whole opinion on Hamas. How could anyone be a terrorist if they ask you for a banana.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Sigh. The beheaded babies thing. A real reporter would know that was debunked, and you can be sure he knew, too. He said it keep the BS going. Tell me this, would a real reporter be promoting a "canadastandswithisreal.com" website link to their organization? Ever seen the BBC do this? CBC? CTV? Global? No, because that's not what news organizations do. So now that we have established they have a bias, and an agenda beyond reporting the news, why the #### would you subject yourself to that? It's admitting you could prefer lies and being mislead than the truth from your news, and at that point, all hope is lost.

Frankly that interview is telling of many ways, but this "reporter" manages to connect with none of them. Maybe listen and try to understand why she feels that way. And no, I'm not agreeing with her views.

OK that part has been debunked...but many children were still murdered in their himes. Thats better than beheading i suppose. It doesn't take away that it was a terrorist action however. Correct?

Canada stands with Israel....is what the Prime Minister and majority of the leadership of this country has stated themselves....though i admit i have zero idea what the website is all about but will have a look.

As for the rest...i get why people on either side of this horror are angry. Niether has some high moral pedestal to stand on, but I also know and understand that its going to go MUCH worse for one than the other because one started this thing 8 days ago completely unprovoked against the other side who is in a position to do so.

Its all very ugly.

Pete Davidson nailed it last night IMO

https://twitter.com/user/status/1713404173276811291

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

(2) doesn't prevent Egypt from letting people out of Gaza into Egypt

Obviously. But #2 was speaking to the "if they leave Gaza they might never be let back in" concern. Egypt has no control over whether that happens.

And in fact, that fear of taking in a million people who could be blocked from returning to Gaza is probably a big reason why they're hesitant to allow anyone in.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by transplant99

OK that part has been debunked...but many children were still murdered in their himes. Thats better than beheading i suppose. It doesn't take away that it was a terrorist action however. Correct?

Canada stands with Israel....is what the Prime Minister and majority of the leadership of this country has stated themselves....though i admit i have zero idea what the website is all about but will have a look.

As for the rest...i get why people on either side of this horror are angry. Niether has some high moral pedestal to stand on, but I also know and understand that its going to go MUCH worse for one than the other because one started this thing 8 days ago completely unprovoked against the other side who is in a position to do so.

Its all very ugly.

Pete Davidson nailed it last night IMO

No, it doesn't, but it also doesn't excuse a "news" organization from lying to push an agenda. Do you not see that? How can you not see that? And if you can, why subject yourself to "news" that has to then be filtered through a lens of partial truths to get to the reality of a situation? What benefit is that to you when there are so many sources from actual news agencies, not propaganda outfits?

[transplant99]

Brave dude right here...

https://twitter.com/user/status/1713392394622923047

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It’s also bizarre to be told repeatedly that Israel is worth defending because they’re so liberal, secular, democratic, etc etc but then the same people scoff at holding them to the same expectation that those things should bring.

“Israel is so great so if you don’t defend them you’re being anti-semitic! But don’t expect them to be greater than terrorists or Egypt, that’s just bigotry.”

Absurd

At least it seems like the US and other Western nations have higher expectations for Israel:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1713525125478228437

Western capitals have privately urged Israel to delay a full-scale land invasion of Gaza as they seek to limit the humanitarian crisis in the Palestinian territory and fear that Benjamin Netanyahu’s government has no long-term plan to follow the destruction of Hamas.
...
As western leaders, ministers and diplomats have been in almost constant contact with Netanyahu and other senior officials they have also pressed Israel about “proportionality”, protecting civilians, allowing civilians to move away from danger, and about humanitarian access, a western official said. “We all have the same script,” the official added.
...
“The first five, six days, because [the October 7 attack] was horrific, everyone was 100 per cent behind the Israelis. But it has changed,” said a western official.

https://www.ft.com/content/ace598c3-...9-022eb89b7b1d

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Brave dude right here...

https://twitter.com/user/status/1713392394622923047

Man, this is why you need some media literacy. Aside from posting tweets from alt-right weirdos, this guy isn’t “torching” Hamas… his speech from 6 years ago is referring to the PA, which he specifically states in the speech.

[TKB]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

You don't think it is an accident they spoke to the person with ak47 ear rings?



Man, it's wild just how poor people are at detecting and analyzing bull####. Depressing, really. But does explain a lot.

I find it hilarious how you of all people are accusing others of “poorly detecting and analyzing bull####”. All one has to do is read your three thousand posts a day and see the crap you post and say.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Itse

Did I or anyone else say that Hamas was in anyway justified in taking hostages?

The point is, what Israel is doing does not on any way look like it's actually connected to the hostage situation, nor does it look like they are doing things with the intention of ending the crisis through the use of force, which is what I would expect a country to do.

If they want to occupy Gaza to snuff out Hamas, I'm for it. But they don't look like they want to try to snuff out Hamas. They are also doing nothing that looks like an action taken to get the hostages back. It's extremely hard to even argue that their actions overall are even likely to damage Hamas more than the average Palestinian.

Israel is mostly just attacking Gaza overall. They do this shuffle where Hamas is on one hand the government of Gaza so they represent all of Gaza so all of Gaza is a legitimate target, but simultaneously Hamas is an illegitimate completely irrational terrorist organization taking advantage of the people of Gaza, which means their grievances don't represent represent real grievances of millions of people, that they aren't a party you should talk with, you can claim that destroying anything Hamas is good for the people of Gaza actually sorry about the collateral damage...

And people on this forum are eating up this rhetoric all they way. Hamas to some people in this discussion is always whatever justifies whatever Israel is doing. The only justification people need to defend anything Israel does is that Hamas is bad, and even if Israel is also bad, Hamas is more bad so Israel is again justified to do whatever it wants to do.

Even when there is no apparent connection between what Israel is doing and what Israel says is the goal of what they are doing.

Btw, what's the number of Palestinian civilians need to die before what Israel is doing is 1) an overreaction 2) indefensible?

About 1200 civilians died in the Hamas attacks. We are currently sitting at about 1900 dead Palestinian Civilians. This is close enough to a 1:1 ratio that I would think many would say this is acceptable, assuming some goals were achieved while doing this. And I would think most would agree that some goals have been achieved, at least in the short term, even if it was nothing more than a retaliation. Retaliation is a goal in itself, after all. (Even if not everyone agrees it's an acceptable goal, we can probably just accept that it's commonly accepted enough that there's not muxh point in debating it.)

What's an unacceptable exchange ratio, and what are things that affect that number for you?

Is actually getting hostages back successfully a factor? How many civilian casualties are justified per hostage returned? 100? 1000? What if Israel gets no hostages back and the security situation afterwards is the same as it was after the 2021 crisis, only with the population of Gaza in an even worse situation than before?

What would be a scenario where you would either say that what Israel did was wrong, or the way they tried to do things was misguided and made things worse?

I would assume that most here would agree that genociding 2 million Palestinians would be too much, and clearly people are okay for some to die.

So where's the line for you, and what are factors that move that line for you, one way or the other? How much would be too much for you?

I'm asking seriously for people to lay out their thinking here. Something more than "Hamas is bad and Israel must do something".

It's a war. Not a special military operation. You fight the war at all costs until you win. Tonight Israel bombers will fly out and bomb Gaza. They will try to hit military targets, but they don't particularly care if some civilians will die either. If Hamas will not surrender tomorrow - and there's no indication that they will, next day the bombers will fly out too. And, among other things, will kill some more civilians. And if Hamas will not surrender, they will fly the day after that too. And if it will continue until the last civilian in Gaza dies - so be it. It's a war. You fight till you win. Show me any war in history of mankind, that wasn't like this.

[Leondros]

Originally Posted by TKB

I find it hilarious how you of all people are accusing others of “poorly detecting and analyzing bull####”. All one has to do is read your three thousand posts a day and see the crap you post and say.

Lol, wtf?