Theoren Fleury

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Yeah... based on his own biography, and random accounts/stories he was always a POS off the ice depsite his very likable on-ice persona.

Theo's on ice personality was an a-hole (but OUR a-hole). He blew kisses to the other bench after scoring, waterskiied opposition guys, played sneaky dirty. But he had a ton of talent and would have been a superstar along with the very top players for a long time but for his addictions.

[Slanter]

Which was no doubt because of the abuse he suffered as a child.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Slanter

Which was no doubt because of the abuse he suffered as a child.

I’m sorry that’s an excuse

Sheldon Kennedy also was abused

He’s isn’t a walking POS

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I’m sorry that’s an excuse

Sheldon Kennedy also was abused

He’s isn’t a walking POS

No, though he also had an alcohol issue for a while. I never heard anone say he was unlikeable though.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Sheldon, even when he was going through some stuff and struggling with addiction still treated people well. Theo consistently treats people like garbage

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

A friend of mine still tries to convince me that #14 should be retired, based solely on his on-ice accomplishments. I used to love watching him play too. Passionate, the underdog, a pest to opponents, entertaining.

Nope. Off-ice matters. Fleury's brand is so toxic now and he is a complete joke. There is no benefit to the Flames' brand by giving him any attention or recognition. I wouldn't even clap if he was in attendance and they flashed his face on the jumbotron. And as much as I'd love to see someone else wear #14 and just get it over with, that too would draw unnecessary attention to him. #14 will remain rotting in jersey purgatory.

Not only would I not clap but there's a strong chance I would boo audibly if I saw Theo on the jumbotron

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Epictetus said that it's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters. Stoics believe that the only thing you can control is your own mind, temperament, demeanor, and actions. No point in worrying about the external chaos that you cannot control.

People always have a choice about what kind of person they want to be. Using your past as a reason to act ####ty is not valid.

It would seem that Fleury never read Epictetus to gain the benefit of this wisdom...actually I'd be shocked if he read anything of any substance at all.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I’m sorry that’s an excuse

Sheldon Kennedy also was abused

He’s isn’t a walking POS

Sheldon legitimately wants/wanted to help people and is a selfless and gracious human. Theo has only ever served Theo.

[afc wimbledon]

I'm not going to defend anyone but a there are a few things we have realised over the years, the effects of abuse are not predictable but addiction and anger issues are probably about the most common consequences, it is frankly more of a miracle that Sheldon Kennedy is not more of an ####### like Theo than the other way around.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I'm not going to defend anyone but a there are a few things we have realised over the years, the effects of abuse are not predictable but addiction and anger issues are probably about the most common consequences, it is frankly more of a miracle that Sheldon Kennedy is not more of an ####### like Theo than the other way around.

This is absolutely true. I wish we as a society could could more openly discuss epidemiology of mental illness/behavioral issues without automatically getting mired in accountability arguments as if they necessarily need to be altered.

Example, a man regularly beaten by his father is far, far more likely to beat his own children. That does not impact the discussion on the consequences of those actions.

Fleury's awfulness is likely attributable to The abuse as well as the general difficulties of growing up where and how he did. That does not change the fact he's an awful person

[MoneyGuy]

There’s a month for every cause. Even stupid ones.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1713588165397938331

[Russic]

People seem to often conflate feeling sad that somebody was abused with giving them a hall pass to do whatever they want. You can feel awful for what he endured, sickened by what he's become, and proud of survivors that lead admirable lives all at the same time.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Russic

People seem to often conflate feeling sad that somebody was abused with giving them a hall pass to do whatever they want. You can feel awful for what he endured, sickened by what he's become, and proud of survivors that lead admirable lives all at the same time.

It's also the reverse of how white people should view Truth and Reconciliation with indigenous peoples in Canada. You did not do the "bad thing" and should not feel guilty. No one thinks you should and it's not relevant to how we proceed in the future. A single indigenous person is wholly responsible for what they do in their lives. But as a society we need to recognize the disadvantages they start with and improve things. We don't need to give passes for illegal or abhorrent behavior. But we do need to fix the structural issues that lead to generational issues. Two things can be true

[activeStick]

I understand the comparisons to Sheldon Kennedy but I assume extreme abuse impacts everyone differently. So, while Kennedy was also abused and managed to not be a total dick to everyone, it doesn't necessarily mean that the abuse that Theo experienced hasn't had a strong impact on who he became. Can't believe I'm empathizing of Fleury...

[Just a guy]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Epictetus said that it's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters. Stoics believe that the only thing you can control is your own mind, temperament, demeanor, and actions. No point in worrying about the external chaos that you cannot control.

People always have a choice about what kind of person they want to be. Using your past as a reason to act ####ty is not valid.

It would seem that Fleury never read Epictetus to gain the benefit of this wisdom...actually I'd be shocked if he read anything of any substance at all.

While I agree with the statements, I would say it only applies to the ones capable of hearing them. As been pointed out by several posts, reactions are not predictable, nor are the easily controllable.

I would say most people go through life thinking/knowing what they know and reacting to that. It is a big step to take to look inwardly and deal with what causes your reactions. This is why it happens less often then one would believe it should.

I give credit to many posters here for their education and knowledge. I also try to understand why some people are so stuck in their ideology/viewpoints. At the same time I see many people who are hurt/damaged/reactionary and try to emphasize with them as well.

A little rambly, but ultimately I believe it is important to try to realize that others do not know what you know and may not be capable of ever knowing. It takes the person to be able to look inside and deal with what they find. That is something that to some is so huge it may never happen.

[mjk123]

Shame his jersey hasn't been retired!!

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by mjk123

Shame his jersey hasn't been retired!!

Seriously? Credit to the Flames organization.

[Otto-matic]

Originally Posted by mjk123

Shame his jersey hasn't been retired!!

I’m glad the flames completely distanced themselves from Theo.

[Engine09]

It could just be that Fleury is susceptible to conspiracy garbage because he's rather unintelligent and therefore has no respect for the brilliant scientists through the modern age who have developed medicine to where it is now. I doubt he's cracked a book, maybe snorted coke off the cover of a few magazines.

[MoneyGuy]

Do you really want to shove a mic into Theo’s face for an acceptance speech?