Official WWE/ECW/WCW/TNA talk, or whatever v2

[rubecube]

NXT crushed Dynamite last night.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1712199294290100687

[Blaster86]

Which likely explains the unhinged texting.

[mile]

Tony needs to stop replying to fans on Twitter lol.

[trackercowe]

Originally Posted by mile

Tony needs to stop replying to fans on Twitter lol.

Also hire experienced booking agents that don't have a horse in the game.

[CaptainCrunch]

As for Tony going nuts on twitter. if it was clever, or smart fill your boots, but he came across as a even more unhinged Vince Russo after WCW went in the toilet..


As for the MJF antisemitism story. I feel like based on what you guys told me that its a huge stretch. But more a case of timing as every one is ultra sensitive towards stuff like that right now.



As for AEW getting pounded yeah, WWE airdropped in the fricken Undertaker and others. The concern would be that Dynamite had a pretty loaded card and lost what an average of 250,000 viewers from last week or more.



With the attendance problems, and the rating stagnation, there has to be concern in the back at AEW that the product has become stale at the very least. I think at the very least the upper card outside of MJF is really stale and not all that interesting, except maybe Christian.



I've also said that Tony needs to bring in a professional booker or experienced booker and that some of the control needs to be taken away from the workers. The indy charm of some really bad promo's and really rough looking matches doesn't seem to be translating into ratings or attendance.



Oh and WTF is with renaming Brian Pillman Jr as Lexi Kane, like seriously WTF man.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

With the attendance problems, and the rating stagnation, there has to be concern in the back at AEW that the product has become stale at the very least. I think at the very least the upper card outside of MJF is really stale and not all that interesting, except maybe Christian.

Yeah, I'm not sure what's going on. During the pandemic, I thought AEW did much better with their long-term booking. Now it just seems like TK is in a rush to book "dream" matches instead of building a coherent angle.

MJF reportedly books most of his own stuff, and the dude clearly has a great mind for the business, but there really aren't any compelling storylines beyond whatever he's doing.

They've also made some really braindead business decisions. Putting Collision on Saturdays was already questionable with it having to go head-to-head with college football. And then, to make matters worse, we've had multiple PPVs booked within weeks of each other, only one of which had any compelling reason to watch. Wrestledream was perhaps the most boneheaded decision of them all, as it was rushed, had minimal star power, and went head-to-head with the NFL in an NFL city.

[Ozy_Flame]

You guys are missing out on a great storyline with Christian and Edge. If you're not watching Christian, you're not watching some of his best work.

Also, some of you are missing the point of AEWs booking style - they clearly play off memes as a theme. They cater to the smaeks. They know their audience.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Also, some of you are missing the point of AEWs booking style - they clearly play off memes as a theme. They cater to the smaeks. They know their audience.

Yeah, the problem with that is it has diminishing returns, as evidenced by the declining ratings and ticket sales.

[Ozy_Flame]

I wouldn't worry about that as a fan. Just enjoy the bits of TV that are good.

Can't say NXT was mind blowing TV in comparison either.

[SuperMatt18]

AEW needs to get back to what made them successful in their first year to 18 months.

Stronger long term story telling (which had it's flaws still) built on the back of the strength of their in-ring talent.

Too many factions, too many rushed matches, and too many storylines that go nowhere. It really is starting to feel like late days WCW.

They have a super talented roster though, it really feels like Tony just needs some help in booking and management at this point.

Tough to be the owner and booker, especially when you see the ratings and attendance start to drop off, because all of a sudden you're making panic decisions and it does feel like he's starting to feel a bit of pressure.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I wouldn't worry about that as a fan. Just enjoy the bits of TV that are good.

Can't say NXT was mind blowing TV in comparison either.

It's not a giant worry right now, but if attendance, buy-rates, and ratings continue to decline, then the long-term future of the company becomes less viable.

I thought this was a pretty good summation of where AEW is right now. The only part I really disagree with is the writer's belief that NXT has much more potential. Tuesday was definitely NXT's ceiling, and they had to pull out all the stops to reach it.

https://www.cagesideseats.com/2023/1...ht-war-edition

A long time ago, then-WWE executive Stephanie McMahon likened WWE to Marvel in terms of their aspirations. I laughed. I still find it funny. I won't say that they have got to that point, but WWE has done a very good job since her husband Paul "Triple H" Levesque took over as showrunner in presenting a cohesive and coherent fictional universe.

AEW, on the other hand, has not. Since AEW's original story arc ended—Hangman Adam Page's journey to the top of AEW—the company has not been able to present a stable, consistent narrative. Stories stop and start randomly; plans change abruptly. Sometimes it's the result of bad luck; other times it is a casualty of Khan not understanding the difference between booking a wrestling show and writing weekly scripted television. There is a difference. WWE had the same problem—until they fixed it under Triple H.

You could say that AEW being creamed was the result of NXT having to load up its card with talent and because of Dynamite's pre-emption. Both of those things are true. However, WWE asked its viewers to tune into one more night of television than they would normally have done; AEW asked its viewers to tune in 24 hours earlier. Different scenarios are not apt for a fair comparison, and Nielsen's ratings are not a true random sample. NXT's engagement on social media was stronger throughout the night. In any event, WWE has a deeper viewership base to pull from. It was never a case of whether or not NXT would draw more viewers; it would be a matter of how much. And it turned out to be 34% more total viewers and 17% more in the demo.

Once again, I give AEW credit—they put on a show that was on brand for them, and it was a pretty good show. But Tuesday night demonstrated the clear ceiling of AEW's formula while NXT's broadcast showed how much potential it really has.

[Ozy_Flame]

Tony needs producers with experience, and likely some script writers who can help focus on central characters.

Amidst all the titles (way too many) and groups (way too many), they're also blurring the lines between who is mid-card and who is main event. And while that's awesome for the smark fans, that's not helpful for the casual fans. They don't know who to get excited for. It also doesn't help if PPV-style matches are opening weekly shows or are too frequently booked including on secondary shows.

Huge, talented roster, and I'm sure people are chomping at the bit to get some air time. But they need to focus on character development with guys who are in it for the long haul. It's fairly evident they are using guys like Moxley and Omega as gatekeepers because they get pops (but aren't focal point characters at the moment), use guys like Jericho, Christian and Edge for legend boosts, and are giving Bryan Danielson a retirement tour of the matches he wants to have.

I like what they're doing with MJF, Jay White and Swerve at the moment, but they're not focusing enough on positioning other top talent like Hangman, Cole, and Joe as the main event stars. And they also seem to be dropping the ball on other great talents such as Andrade, Miro, Rush, Brody King, Matthews, Black, Bandido and PAC.

I love AEW because competition is good, but they very much need to refocus and simplify. Also, get Tony Khan away from social media. At least Vince knew when to shut up.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Tony needs producers with experience, and likely some script writers who can help focus on central characters.

He has them. He either doesn't listen to the ones in the back or just puts them into "on air personality" roles.

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I love AEW because competition is good, but they very much need to refocus and simplify. Also, get Tony Khan away from social media. At least Vince knew when to shut up

I don't love AEW but there is no denying competition is good. AEW has created some amazing dynamics that have immensely helped the wrestling world. I do not want to see them dragged down to IMPACT level by not correcting the course. They're obviously no where near that, but those late WCW vibes keep floating back up.

[CaptainCrunch]

Tony needs producers that are force full. But because it feels like Tony put the power in the hands of the workers we get just fricken bizarre match booking and weird nonsensical work on the mic.

They also get workers doing dangerous shyte that they don't know how to do, or do bizarre things in the ring that are of more benefit to entertaining the back then the audience.

They also do have WCW syndrome. They have EVP's that are still active in the ring, and I've said from the start that its what killed a lot of territories when you had bookers or owners that were still in the ring and also getting jobs for their buddies.

Nobody wanted to see Vern Gagne in the end as a octogerian as the world Champion.

You've also and its very WCW got guys at the top that are either past their prime, or you can see in the quarter hour TV ratings that fans just don't care about.

You have a cast of millions, like WCW who aren't on TV while the EVP's and veterans hold onto their spots for dear life.

You want a positive first step beyond a producer.

Hey Jericho, why don't you go on a one year world tour with Fozzy, and we'll bring you back later.

Hey Bucks, how about you decide be EVP's or wrestlers or both.

Hey Mox you need a vacation, and you've seriously made bleeding mean absolutely nothing

I love Christian, I think he's a tremendous heel. I like Edge, though he faded in his end run in WWE, but why the F is he taking a piledriver in one of his first matches in AEW, and why did they make that piledrive worthless with him kicking out of it. That's just a story that you could use later with any wrestler that's not Luchasaurus. Pile drive Copeland scream about his neck not have him kick out and lose, have medical personal come out. You have instant super heat and a must see return match.

But I agree with someone up above. Tony books his idea of dream matches, and the problem with that is they lose their intrigue with little to no build or story lines.

I mean they don't need more producers, they need someone that will come in and tell the workers to actually listen to the producers or they're gone. They need a strong writer that can put together a strong story line and tell people like the Bucks or Jericho or the other workers that they're ideas are stupid when they're stupid.

AEW still has this good roster, but they do have WCW syndrome, its time to start building some other guys up, and send some of the more um senior guys to the occasional work event kind of guys.

[Blaster86]

FFS, someone break into his office and take it away!


He had 600k on a night he had to move the show from its regular day and time and was up against two appearances by two of the greatest of all time. That should be a good thing. Something to crow about. Instead he's melting down and just alienating everyone, including those in his own company. It's too much. It's toxic.

[SuperMatt18]

Yeah Tony Kahn is starting to look pretty unhinged here.

One thing with AEW is I don't think the EVPs have tried to use their power to book themselves strong (Which was WCW problem) but if anything at times maybe it's actually hurt them because they are overcompensating for that.

Young Bucks should be fixtures in the tag team division.

Kenny Omega should be a powerful, almost final boss like figure in the title hunt.

Cody Rhodes should have booked himself more in the title picture when he was still there (and turned heel) instead of the face in the midcard for the TNT title.

Cut the deadweight and focus on the strong roster they have. Get rid of all the ROH ####. As much as I liked the Adam Cole and MJF storyline, nothing makes your world title look more like an "independent" than having your world champion also being the ROH tag team champion.

[CaptainCrunch]

Unhinged is a good way of putting it. And he's putting himself in front of his company now.

He does sound like Vince Russo, when he came into WCW and the ratings dropped, and he was on every interview angrily attacking the press, Turner, everyone.

Maybe they could make a story line out of it (Don't read this its awful).

Spoiler!

Tony's old man comes in with a huge clump or wrestlers that have been off of TV for years, and he cuts a promo on his son. "I'm tired of you spending my money and embarrassing my family name. That's it young man your grounded".


At which Tony throws a banana coo coo hissy fit and gets dragged off by mental health workers after they put him is a strait jacket.


Then we get some normalcy until we get vignettes that Tony has escaped and was last seen in Cleveland where he claims to be a boat captain (WCW represent).


Then Tony shows up on Dynamite with his wrestlers, The Bucks, Omega and Jericho and Page and they call themselves the Millionaires club and they go up against Tony's Dad's faction which have called themselves the Ignored or Young Blood.


Then at the next PPV we get a disembodied voice during a main event 20 on 20 tag team match between the two factions that states "Dance My Monkeys Dance" Then the lights go out and when they come on we see Ed Ferrera and Vince Russo in the middle of the ring and they are announced as the new Majority owners of AEW. Both teams assault them and suddenly Chucky, Robo Cop and The Goobly ####er come to Russo's aid.


It'll make Billions I tell ya Billions.

[rubecube]

Dynamite up quite a bit this week. NXT settled back into its usual range. I do think having Omega on the card makes people tune in.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1715104345803395549

https://twitter.com/user/status/1714743651551645964

[trackercowe]

Well The Sting retirement announcement surely pulled in viewers as well. I think of all the legends AEW has brought in Sting has been the most popular. Teaming him up with Darby was a great choice as well... I kinda hope Sting's final match is with Darby. I doubt it'll happen but Darby could become a monster heel by going over Sting in his final match... or they could have a Michaels/Flair moment at Revolution.

I do hope Sting has creative control over his final feud/match, as can Tony be trusted to handle that moment carefully?

[LIP MAN]

Man, reading this, and watching WWE just to see what’s happening. What about that product is really good? Outside of Dom, KO and Zayn WWE has some okay matches and Judgement Day. But it honestly still has a dinner theatre vibe to it. It’s very much predictable and sort of boring. Not sure how it passes while another product is out there working with adult storylines and themes. He’ll, Adam Cole is injured and they’re using him super well.

Quick question: do ratings include streaming?