Flames' Pride Night slotted for March 28 vs. LA

[Cali Panthers Fan]

^^

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

Who’s suggesting players be forced to do anything?

I started that sentence thinking it would end differently than it did, as I was still thinking things out. I've fixed it. The "forcing" part is three sentences later.

[butterfly]

I bet the league is just hoping players go along with this. This what it actually says in the rule book. They will have no standing to punish anyone.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Kidder

I do not use pride tape. I have a roll somewhere given to me as a gift and I’ve never broken the seal.

But let me explain why, as the reasons underline the importance of such an initiative.

I grew up in the era of shame, when lockerrooms mandated a closet where I changed amongst my peers, hidden but privy to anti-gay sentiment and rhetoric.

The hardfast rule was don’t react. Any flinch or any reaction, could give away my secret and, as I believed at the time, ruin and end my life.

Some in my position join in the harmful banter. Hard to be accused when you are the accuser. I’m thankful I never partook in bullying to conceal my identity. But sitting in silence absorbing the lockerroom talk, it left a lasting effect on my self esteem and self confidence that exists today — like a scar on the soul.

I left organized hockey. But I love the sport so much. I’d play street hockey with my buddies every day after school. I’d watch every Flames game I could, or listen to Peter Mahr as I went to sleep on nights I couldn’t. The sport resonates with me like almost nothing else in life. I actually never feel more like myself than when I’m out on a hockey rink.

I’m happy to say I eventually returned to hockey. Not only as a player, but as an instructor and a coach. Where I could share my passion and knowledge of the game I immersed myself in as a child and adolescent. It also gave me opportunity to ensure I could cultivate an environment welcoming to everyone. Race, gender, orientation, ability. Doesn’t matter. All are valued.

In essence the work I do is to protect future generations from the pain I had to endure. But despite my efforts, I can’t seem to fully undo the effect it had on me.

This past weekend I was involved in a charity hockey event, and got into conversation with a mom I greatly admire, and I know the respect is mutual. We’ve volunteered in the same circles for a while and she praises the work I’ve done with her kid in his development. So I’m in the midst of a story about a previous event where I had helped deliver the leftover uneaten food items to my former boyfriend’s work… and I tripped over the word. To where I bumbled my way to eventually settling on “friend.” Censoring myself and filling my body with anxiety and trepidation.

I’m not proud of that moment. It’s basically why my pride tape remains unrolled. It summons up the anxiety and fear of the vitriol that consumed me in my formative years. It’s painful and embarrassing to even admit. I’m essentially the person Ebola thinks we all should be. Letting the shame we grew up with because of our “choice” keep us in the shadows.

And that’s why I have great respect for all those that do dawn the pride tape. The allies especially. It’s just a subtle, silent reminder that times have changed, and there is support and inclusion out there. It does make an important difference in those lives connected to hockey.

Lastly I’d like to thank this Calgarypuck community, as some have already done. To watch the debate unfold on here over the decades, there have always been allies and advocates who have stood up and defended the lgbtq+ community. Not just those who were allies from the start, but to those who entered debates and discussions with open minds and reformed their opinions as they encountered new perspectives and differing viewpoints.

I’ve learned it’s imperative to focus on the support and not the detractors as we battle through life, and CP has developed into a wonderful welcoming community, evidenced by this thread.

The night the Oilers got eliminated from the playoffs I was at the (one) queer bar in town on a date. We made sure to kiss goodnight inside the bar before we left and gave them a hug as we were outside as the Oilers fans streamed out of Rogers Place and was flooded with anxiety and fear. I hated that and I still do thinking about it now. It's so hard to love something like this sport when you're not sure if the person walking out of the rink or sitting next you is going to verbally harass (or worse) you for just existing as yourself.

I don't think most folks, even well meaning ones, really understand what that feeling is fully like. Or the emotional load to constantly meet people where they're at figuratively sit at the same table with people who think we're mentally ill (I mean I am, but not just becasue I like to kiss people of various genders).

[Johnny Makarov]

Just ban all the deplorable Russians and the Staal brothers from the NHL. They can all play in the KHL.

[MissTeeks]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1711837409388970396

The NHLPA was consulted on the new policies apparently.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

Okay, right, meeting people where they're at, I get that, to a certain degree .

The thing is, the pride tape thing isn't that. It's saying players don't have a choice. And isn't your argument that the pride jersey hold outs should have had their choice?

Also if someone wants to deny the right for someone to exist, I think throwing rocks at them is okay. How do you sit at the table when part of the table denies the right of Queer and Trans people to exist and call us 'groomers'.

I think I was pretty clear of the difference between those who just don't support but are otherwise respectful and tolerant vs those who are actively against.

And don't kid yourself about the pride tape. Even if some players used it, the story would still be about the players who didn't. That's how society is. It would rather throw rocks at the people who don't use the tape vs celebrate the ones that did.

My argument was literally about celebrating the cause while respecting that some people just aren't there yet vs standing around and pointing fingers at everyone who doesn't participate.

It's kinda crazy, but I can already tell I'm going to have to fight to defend my personal stance that I can accept, support and treat equally BOTH sides of the table (while NOT accepting people who actively disrespect and demean, regardless of which side they're on).

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by butterfly

I bet the league is just hoping players go along with this. This what it actually says in the rule book. They will have no standing to punish anyone.

I was wondering about this. Thanks for looking it up. I know I'd have the tape on my stick for opening faceoff in the very first game. On the knob though, becuase something that colorful on the blade would be distracting for myself and anyone passing me the puck.

[PuckSlap]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Just ban all the deplorable Russians and the Staal brothers from the NHL. They can all play in the KHL.

Ya, that'll show em. Nothing bad has ever come from excluding an entire ethnic group. Especially one as diverse as the largest country on this planet.

Kool beans

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I think I was pretty clear of the difference between those who just don't support but are otherwise respectful and tolerant vs those who are actively against.

And don't kid yourself about the pride tape. Even if some players used it, the story would still be about the players who didn't. That's how society is. It would rather throw rocks at the people who don't use the tape vs celebrate the ones that did.

My argument was literally about celebrating the cause while respecting that some people just aren't there yet vs standing around and pointing fingers at everyone who doesn't participate.

It's kinda crazy, but I can already tell I'm going to have to fight to defend my personal stance that I can accept, support and treat equally BOTH sides of the table (while NOT accepting people who actively disrespect and demean, regardless of which side they're on).

My man, they're taking choice away from players by banning the tape. You don't see how one could argue that's the same thing as players not having the choice to not wear a pride jersey?

Also there is a difference between fairness and equality. Example of which is me kissing a cis women in public doesn't come with the same fear of getting curbstomped as if I was kissing anyone else.

I honestly trying to have a good faith discussion here, and I'm sorry if it's coming across as I'm demeaning, I'm really trying not to be. I do think you're creating a false equivalency by not considering why folks would have good reasons to react they way they do when someone implies, they think their 'chosen lifestyle' (it's not a choice) is immoral. The line between folks making statement like that, and supporting the 'Save the Children' freak or conversation therapy is only the reactionaries say the quiet part out loud.

A friends dad and I were talking about the amazing race canada when it was on, and he didn't like the two drag queens. He said that he had no problem with them being gay, he just found everything else about them annoying. What he was talking about was essentially their queerness and behavior outside what he considered the masculine norm. So really it was an issue they were gay, he just didn't care about the sex part.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by MissTeeks

https://twitter.com/user/status/1711837409388970396

The NHLPA was consulted on the new policies apparently.

Wow. What a bunch of cowards.

"Hockey is for Everyone" my ass...

[GirlySports]

It's not a fight the NHLPA thinks it's worth fighting for, it might have to give up something for it!

The NHL and NHLPA are so bottom-line.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

It's not a fight the NHLPA thinks it's worth fighting for, it might have to give up something for it!

The NHL and NHLPA are so bottom-line.

Why would the players have to give up anything?

[fotze2]

As an aside, wasn't it Okotoker who created the pride tape?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

That's their own gig... it won't have any involvement from Pride Calgary.

They won't be in the annual parade/festival. Any sponsorship will be dropped too.

This doesn’t make any sense, why?

And the criticism of Ras doesn’t make any sense either. Guy is a bonafide ally and people are mad that he didn’t disagree with it hard enough? Come on.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by PuckSlap

Ya, that'll show em. Nothing bad has ever come from excluding an entire ethnic group. Especially one as diverse as the largest country on this planet.

Kool beans

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

Diverse? They aren't diverse at all. Hence the deplorableness.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by fotze2

As an aside, wasn't it Okotoker who created the pride tape?

It was created in Edmonton. Andrew Ference as captain pitched it to the Oilers, who were the first team to adopt it.

Pretty sure he was an early Kickstarter investor too.

[manwiches]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

The night the Oilers got eliminated from the playoffs I was at the (one) queer bar in town on a date. We made sure to kiss goodnight inside the bar before we left and gave them a hug as we were outside as the Oilers fans streamed out of Rogers Place and was flooded with anxiety and fear. I hated that and I still do thinking about it now. It's so hard to love something like this sport when you're not sure if the person walking out of the rink or sitting next you is going to verbally harass (or worse) you for just existing as yourself.

I don't think most folks, even well meaning ones, really understand what that feeling is fully like. Or the emotional load to constantly meet people where they're at figuratively sit at the same table with people who think we're mentally ill (I mean I am, but not just because I like to kiss people of various genders).

I can confidently say, without a shadow of a doubt, if I saw you or anyone else do that, and ANYONE would react remotely negatively to it, I would say something to said person. I would do the same for a friend, family, or anyone I know in a racial situation. I would do it, and have done it, to bigoted a$$ hats. In the past when I have spoken up in defense, I have ALWAYS had others chime in and that bigot has always been silenced in the end by committee.

It is a crying shame that you and others have to feel this way, because of the potential bigotry & narrow mindedness of a few.

Regarding the topic at hand, pride tape. If I were a player, I'd wrap my whole damned stick in support of this. I could care less of a fine. Sue me

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

My man, they're taking choice away from players by banning the tape. You don't see how one could argue that's the same thing as players not having the choice to not wear a pride jersey?

Also there is a difference between fairness and equality. Example of which is me kissing a cis women in public doesn't come with the same fear of getting curbstomped as if I was kissing anyone else.

I honestly trying to have a good faith discussion here, and I'm sorry if it's coming across as I'm demeaning, I'm really trying not to be. I do think you're creating a false equivalency by not considering why folks would have good reasons to react they way they do when someone implies, they think their 'chosen lifestyle' (it's not a choice) is immoral. The line between folks making statement like that, and supporting the 'Save the Children' freak or conversation therapy is only the reactionaries say the quiet part out loud.

A friends dad and I were talking about the amazing race canada when it was on, and he didn't like the two drag queens. He said that he had no problem with them being gay, he just found everything else about them annoying. What he was talking about was essentially their queerness and behavior outside what he considered the masculine norm. So really it was an issue they were gay, he just didn't care about the sex part.

Nono, I wasn't saying you were being demeaning or anything. I just wanted to be clear that my acceptance only extends to people who aren't a**holes, regardless of which side they're on.

I'm not saying players shouldn't have the choice to use Pride tape or not. In fact, I'm very much saying they SHOULD have that choice. I'm just also saying that society isn't mature enough to handle the players having that choice, and therefore I can see why it was taken away.

I get what you're saying, but the problem is that anyone who doesn't wear the jersey or put the tape on their stick is lumped into the same group and treated like they're out there curbstomping supporters when they're not on the ice. Just look at this very thread at people calling those seven players "losers" and "pathetic" and just generally wishing them all ill will.

Having said that, I've also said that I myself (if I was a player) would be using the tape in game one of the regular season and beyond.

I think the only binary in the world should be "are you an a**hole or not." The whole Pride vs whatever thing is just like anything else in the world, in that people on either side are either a**holes or they aren't. The ones who aren't can have a genuine dialog and meet on some semblance of resonable commonality... the ones who are should be dragged out into the street and slapped around until they aren't.

Anyway, I wasn't upset with anything you wrote at all. You're good, man.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

And don't kid yourself about the pride tape. Even if some players used it, the story would still be about the players who didn't. That's how society is. It would rather throw rocks at the people who don't use the tape vs celebrate the ones that did.

That’s why the NHLPA is onboard with the change in policy. If 15 players in warmup have pride tape on their sticks, and 5 don’t, the 5 will be questioned by reporters and attacked on social media. Presumably the players - including many who support pride - want to avoid that.

Freedom to opt in or out of symbolic gestures sounds nice in principle. But when it comes to contentious issues with lots of media attention, it usually means divisiveness and shaming.