Israel declares war on Hamas

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Today will be an even more traumatic gut-wrenching day as details of the level of atrocities are revealed. The world has not seen this type of systematic execution of Jews since the Nazi pogroms. Never Again happened last Saturday. The difference this time is that the response will be overwhelming.

Currently civilian execution of Ukranians, Armenians and Isrealites. That doesn't even include the Uyghurs in China or whats happening in parts of Africa. It's a very barbaric time globally.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by opendoor

But that doesn't mean none are going to die and it certainly doesn't mean we should undermine the tragedy of little kids being killed in war by blaming their parents.

But... but... it's the other side!!

[WCW Nitro]

I find it interesting that the media and some people are focusing more on what some despicable people are saying at rallies than on what the Israeli government has openly said, that it will cut off all food and water to Gaza , in other words starve civilians. Imagine if Russia would have said and done something like this, there would be non-stop coverage and condemnation.But I guess that describes the conflict to some degree.
. .

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by opendoor

No offense, but that's a pretty weird thing to say. There are a bunch of reasons why you might be seeing that:

-infants and kids are far more fragile and less likely to be able to respond to avoid injury than adults, so they're more likely to die from blunt impacts like that
-in cases where a whole family dies in an air strike, you're obviously not going to see videos of a living parent holding a dead kid.
-related to the above, you're being fed propaganda from the Palestinian side and dead kids works great for that. In reality, the number of children dying in Gaza airstrikes is significantly below their share of the population.

But that doesn't mean none are going to die and it certainly doesn't mean we should undermine the tragedy of little kids being killed in war by blaming their parents.

Fair enough, I withdraw it. It sounds stupid when read it as well.

[_Q_]

Do you know what Israel could do to show the Palestinians they only want peace? Open up their borders to palestinian civilians, while they fight hamas in Gaza. Provide shelter, medical aid and food. Hell, even if they opened up the border to women, children and the elderly and let them temporarily resettle in the West Bank, it would go a long way.

[Language]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

I find it interesting that the media and some people are focusing more on what some despicable people are saying at rallies than on what the Israeli government has openly said, that it will cut off all food and water to Gaza , in other words starve civilians. Imagine if Russia would have said and done something like this, there would be non-stop coverage and condemnation.But I guess that describes the conflict to some degree.
. .

Gaza is controlled by the enemy, who just committed atrocities.

Israel has no obligation to provide electricity and water to their enemies. They have done so because Hamas is clearly not capable of self-ruling the strip in the best interests of their own population.

If Israel’s intention is to lead a ground invasion to finally neutralize Hamas once and for all, and exterminate them, then they will do what they have to do.

And I’m not understanding your Russia comparison. Russia has openly and deliberately shot missiles at Ukraine’s civil infrastructure, most notably during the winter, to try and annihilate Ukraine’s electricity abilities. There has been widespread condemnation from all Western countries opposing the Russian invasion of Ukraine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Language]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Do you know what Israel could do to show the Palestinians they only want peace? Open up their borders to palestinian civilians, while they fight hamas in Gaza. Provide shelter, medical aid and food. Hell, even if they opened up the border to women, children and the elderly and let them temporarily resettle in the West Bank, it would go a long way.

Israel is not under any obligation to be taking on hundreds of thousands, or millions of people.

It is the obligation of their own government to secure their population’s safety.

Hamas has done nothing in their time governing that territory to protect their civilian population. They have done the exact opposite, and willingly.

Egypt, another Arab nation, can also do the same. There is a reason they are not, and it’s pretty obvious.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Do you know what Israel could do to show the Palestinians they only want peace? Open up their borders to palestinian civilians, while they fight hamas in Gaza. Provide shelter, medical aid and food. Hell, even if they opened up the border to women, children and the elderly and let them temporarily resettle in the West Bank, it would go a long way.

Know what Hamas could do? Lay down its arms, declare an unconditional surrender and turn over its military wing to international forces for trial as war criminals. Power would be immediately restored and food and medical supplies would be brought in. Hell the the IDF would even assist in restocking and rebuilding Gaza.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

I find it interesting that the media and some people are focusing more on what some despicable people are saying at rallies than on what the Israeli government has openly said, that it will cut off all food and water to Gaza , in other words starve civilians. Imagine if Russia would have said and done something like this, there would be non-stop coverage and condemnation.But I guess that describes the conflict to some degree.
. .

Well Gaza has a whole other border with Egypt that Israel has nothing to do with, there is nothing stopping Hamas getting food water and power from Egypt, I mean other than the fact that Egypt hates Palestinians more than Israel in truth (like every Muslim country in the region it seems) and Hamas doesn't give a flying #### about its own people and so wont bother to mend its relationship with Egypt, the truth is Hamas wants its people to die, it adds grist to Hamas's mill of hatred.

I suspect the scale of utter barbarity they inflicted on civilians was possibly not planned by Hamas, that they didn't really think through what was going to happen once their troops got across the border, they just told them to go and kill people, assuming that it would just be alot of shot people, that right now in Gaza the commanders are looking at the massive reports of rapes, the beheading of children, babies even and thinking this might not be a good look , that Israel can pretty much do what ever it wants now and no one is going to really hold it against them

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Well Gaza has a whole other border with Egypt that Israel has nothing to do with, there is nothing stopping Hamas getting food water and power from Egypt, I mean other than the fact that Egypt hates Palestinians more than Israel in truth (like every Muslim country in the region it seems) and Hamas doesn't give a flying #### about its own people and so wont bother to mend its relationship with Egypt, the truth is Hamas wants its people to die, it adds grist to Hamas's mill of hatred.

The bolded isn't strictly true. Israel sometimes also enforces blockades at that border and just today they apparently bombed right near the crossing, closing it. So aid supplies that were supposed to get into Gaza via Egypt had to be turned back.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Language

Israel is not under any obligation to be taking on hundreds of thousands, or millions of people.

It is the obligation of their own government to secure their population’s safety.

Hamas has done nothing in their time governing that territory to protect their civilian population. They have done the exact opposite, and willingly.

Egypt, another Arab nation, can also do the same. There is a reason they are not, and it’s pretty obvious.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Excuse me? An occupying power doesn't have the legal obligation to safeguard the safety of the civilian population its occupying?

This is not unprecedented stuff I'm suggesting. This is basic human rights.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Language

Israel is not under any obligation to be taking on hundreds of thousands, or millions of people.

It is the obligation of their own government to secure their population’s safety.

Hamas has done nothing in their time governing that territory to protect their civilian population. They have done the exact opposite, and willingly.

Egypt, another Arab nation, can also do the same. There is a reason they are not, and it’s pretty obvious.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A major issue is that Israel also doesn't know who is a militant and who is a civilian. Hamas has a history of using both female and child soldiers. Having Hamas operatives infiltrate Israel remains a huge concern.

[woob]

Can we maybe agree that calling someone sweetheart and cupcake, in a clearly derogatory manner, is not OK. Though the way this thread has gone, it's on long list of items that is not OK.

[Language]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Excuse me? An occupying power doesn't have the legal obligation to safeguard the safety of the civilian population its occupying?

This is not unprecedented stuff I'm suggesting. This is basic human rights.

Israel is not occupying Gaza. There have not been any Israeli’s in Gaza since 2005, except for those kidnapped unwillingly by Hamas.

Again, Gaza is self-occupied and ruled by Hamas. How Hamas governs the area, and their own mandate to kill and slaughter Israelis and Jews, is what is leading to their own citizens not being safeguarded.

Maybe its time the Arab world put pressure on Hamas to lay down its arms and treat its own citizens better? Then perhaps Palestinians can finally have the everlasting peace that they, and Israelis, want.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Azure]

Despicable. Imagine defending this.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1711754344821821616

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Language

Israel is not occupying Gaza. There have not been any Israeli’s in Gaza since 2005, except for those kidnapped unwillingly by Hamas.

Again, Gaza is self-occupied and ruled by Hamas. How Hamas governs the area, and their own mandate to kill and slaughter Israelis and Jews, is what is leading to their own citizens not being safeguarded.

Maybe its time the Arab world put pressure on Hamas to lay down its arms and treat its own citizens better? Then perhaps Palestinians can finally have the everlasting peace that they, and Israelis, want.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Are you sure about that?

Amnesty international, as well as the UN disagree with you.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/ca...dispossession/

https://www.ochaopt.org/

[WCW Nitro]

Originally Posted by Language

Gaza is controlled by the enemy, who just committed atrocities.

Israel has no obligation to provide electricity and water to their enemies. They have done so because Hamas is clearly not capable of self-ruling the strip in the best interests of their own population.

If Israel’s intention is to lead a ground invasion to finally neutralize Hamas once and for all, and exterminate them, then they will do what they have to do.

And I’m not understanding your Russia comparison. Russia has openly and deliberately shot missiles at Ukraine’s civil infrastructure, most notably during the winter, to try and annihilate Ukraine’s electricity abilities. There has been widespread condemnation from all Western countries opposing the Russian invasion of Ukraine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You can't commit war crimes because you don't like the other side, it's a conflict, of course you won't like the other side. Would you be ok with Hamas saying well we're occupied so anything goes and we can do what we want?

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

You can't commit war crimes because you don't like the other side, it's a conflict, of course you won't like the other side. Would you be ok with Hamas saying well we're occupied so anything goes and we can do what we want?

Israeli logic dude. None of it makes sense.

I swear, a few decades down the road, Israeli propaganda will become a case study on how to induce personality disorders on an entire population.

[blankall]

It's not feasible for Israel to set up a makeshift refugee camp in their borders. Especially as Hamas operatives don't wear uniforms, which is a war crime in itself. That would leave Israel with hundreds of thousands of people to monitor. A population that would almost certainly include hostiles and a population that has a history of getting whipped up into blood thirsty riots. The logistics of that would be insane and only put Israel in a worst position in terms of potential human rights violations.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by blankall

A major issue is that Israel also doesn't know who is a militant and who is a civilian. Hamas has a history of using both female and child soldiers. Having Hamas operatives infiltrate Israel remains a huge concern.

They also stripped Israeli soldiers, dead and alive, of their uniforms so they could continue their slaughter dressed up as IDF forces. What they did on Saturday represents the very and absolute worst of humanity.