Grizzly bear kills two people in Banff National Park

[Locke]

As I said before I am not at all what one would consider a 'firearms enthusiast or aficionado' but I can say with relative certainty...you do not want every average idiot and their brother wandering through the woods packing heat.

I cant be the only one who can anticipate the seemingly very obvious result of such a policy. You know what you're going to get?

Anyone remember that scene from Jaws when they put a Bounty on a shark like a bunch of numpty morons and everyone with a boat runs out and they're throwing dynamite in the water and the whole thing is just sheer chaos?

Thats what you're going to get.

For whatever reason people think the only ones out there are going to be intelligent, responsible and experienced firearms enthusiasts....in reality I very sincerely doubt that would be the case.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Locke

Okay, since I too love me some Werner Herzog, that man is like a bright ray of sunshine in my life…

A fine director. But your life must be pretty dark if his works are a ‘ray of sunshine’ .

Spoiler!

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

The bear got put down anyways. So at the end of the day, what's better?

Two people, a dog and a bear deceased, or one dead bear?

Or even the potential outcome where the bear is scared off with a flesh wound (because "the shooter panics") and recovers, and every one goes home alive and well with no resources spent by the park to recover bodies from a gruesome murder scene.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

A fine director. But your life must be pretty dark if his works are a ‘ray of sunshine’ .

Spoiler!

That man is a treasure! He is the Poet of our Times!

Spoiler!

[Cecil Terwilliger]

I’m definitely against giving the bears guns. I know that much for sure.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I’m definitely against giving the bears guns. I know that much for sure.

How else will they protect themselves against the bear bangers?

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I’m definitely against giving the bears guns. I know that much for sure.

Look, whatever keeps people out of the parks is fine with me. I'm for attaching fricken' laser beams to their heads if it reduces crowds.

[MoneyGuy]

So bear arms instead of arm bears.

[driveway]

About 1000 people are shot in hunting accidents each year in Canada and the US, about 100 die as a result. Source

About 30 people in the US and Canada are killed by bears each decade. Source

Allowing guns into National Parks would result in more people dying than in the status quo.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

A fine director. But your life must be pretty dark if his works are a ‘ray of sunshine’ .

Spoiler!

Spoiler!

[Brendone]

“Can we kill off dangerous animals in their natural habitat so I can spend more time in ‘non touristy’ nature?”

Sounds about right

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by driveway

About 1000 people are shot in hunting accidents each year in Canada and the US, about 100 die as a result. Source

About 30 people in the US and Canada are killed by bears each decade. Source

Allowing guns into National Parks would result in more people dying than in the status quo.

Well, they wouldn’t allow hunting in National Parks.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

The bear got put down anyways. So at the end of the day, what's better?

Two people, a dog and a bear deceased, or one dead bear?

Or even the potential outcome where the bear is scared off with a flesh wound (because "the shooter panics") and recovers, and every one goes home alive and well with no resources spent by the park to recover bodies from a gruesome murder scene.

There is very little reason to believe a gun would have helped Doug and Jenny, and even less reason to believe they would have packed one. If we hear the necropsy comes back to capsicum residue on the bears face/fur/respiratory system then there might be a conversation (though you'd have to put odds at 50% that a gun was as accessible as the bear spray that was used vs. the can that was not).


I actually waded through accounts of the 8 incidents/11 fatalities I listed in national/provincial parks...this was the first time that there was any reference to bear spray at all.

So if you want to argue that guns might have helped in any of those cases, you'd also have to acknowledge that bear spray may have been similarly effective.

Put another way, in 43 years there has been one fatal incident in Canadian parks where the victim had bear spray.

If you aren't inside a tent, you can make the statement that there has never been a fatal attack in Canadian parks where the victim had bear spray - ie. no dayhiker carrying spray has ever been killed.

Of course we know that outside the parks there have been many fatalities, with and without guns and/or bear spray - but of course there are a bunch of caveats to this like the nature of the human activity. I think there may be only one other instance - a worksite in Alaska - where there was a fatality despite bear spray).

Guns are nowhere close to a silver bullet solution. A serious bear attack scenario is already incredibly rare. The odds are infinitesimal for a scenario where bear spray could be appropriately deployed and fail to work but a gun could be similarly deployed and save the situation. But I'd argue the odds of the reverse being true are probably at least as high.

[powderjunkie]

Also, I came across a remarkable story - the daughter of the woman killed near Canmore in 2005 had a very similar grizzly encounter herself 12 years later:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...-148-1.4283652. Do they make trail running holsters for guns? I think I'll just stick with my quick and easy bear spray.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Brendone

“Can we kill off dangerous animals in their natural habitat so I can spend more time in ‘non touristy’ nature?”

Sounds about right

This is right up there with the "nature lovers" who trigger avalanches with their snowmobiles and backcountry skiing. They don't care about nature, they just want their own private resort.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

The bear got put down anyways. So at the end of the day, what's better?

Two people, a dog and a bear deceased, or one dead bear?

Or even the potential outcome where the bear is scared off with a flesh wound (because "the shooter panics") and recovers, and every one goes home alive and well with no resources spent by the park to recover bodies from a gruesome murder scene.

Does the Bear have a name? Is this another 'Harembe' situation? People went where they werent supposed to and an animal has to pay the price.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by blankall

This is right up there with the "nature lovers" who trigger avalanches with their snowmobiles and backcountry skiing. They don't care about nature, they just want their own private resort.

At least Sliver is pretty openly honest about that.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I’m definitely against giving the bears guns. I know that much for sure.

Coward. Thats not very sporting of you.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Sliver

It's not absurd; it's totally reasonable. So if I'm surveying in the rocky mountains my life is of high enough value that you're fine with me being able to defend myself with a weapon, but if I'm just hiking then I should accept that a bear might eat me.

If this is about risk management, then I will open my mind to you carrying a gun on the trail only after you arrive at the trailhead in a helmet and a five point harness.

You're blowing past so many more tangible risks in your mountain adventures on your logical path to arriving at carrying a gun.

This isn't about logic, risk, or probabilities.

This is about your feelings and irrational fear.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

If this is about risk management, then I will open my mind to you carrying a gun on the trail only after you arrive at the trailhead in a helmet and a five point harness.

You're blowing past so many more tangible risks in your mountain adventures on your logical path to arriving at carrying a gun.

This isn't about logic, risk, or probabilities.

This is about your feelings and irrational fear.

Which is basically human beings in a nutshell. We're so weird as a species, considering our large brains.