[GDT] Flames at Canucks 8pmMDT - SNTV/SN960

[UKflames]

I try not to put to much into preseason games and will wait and see where we are at after 10 games, but Lindholm and Huberdeu don't appear to compliment each other so far.

[Savvy27]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

I think the backup up is the least of our worries if we can't figure out better line combinations.

Agreed. I really hope they were just using the preseason to try some things out because the lines weren't working.

Mangiapane Backlund Coleman should be the starting point. If Mang was great with other groups and you need a goal scorer for Huberdeau then go for it, but he's not. He's exceptional in one spot and that is a top end checking line that contributes solid offence. He scored 35 goals in that role!

Personally, I still believe that if you want to have consistent, reliable offence then you play the most talented offensive players together. For the Flames that is Huberdeau-Kadri-Lindholm. It sucks that Kadri and Lindholm are both good centers, but I don't think the trade off is worth it to enjoy their defensive prowess if the team can't score at 5v5. Coronato may fit with Huberdeau but it's a lot to ask of a rookie to play against top D pairs every night. We actually saw this line a bunch in the game vs the Canucks but it was mostly in the third when the veterans had checked out.

Here is what I would try:

Huberdeau Kadri Lindholm (Kadri/Lindy share C role and take faceoffs on strong sides)
Mangiapane Backlund Coleman
Sharangovich Dube Coronato
Pelletier Ruzicka Duehr (Hunt/Schwindt/Zary in until Pelts returns)

Give the top two lines ~40 minutes a game and let the bottom two lines fight it out every game for minutes. Peters may be a bad person but he was a good bench manager who would play the top 9 every game in the third period based on how they performed that night. Let's get back to that.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Well hopefully these guys just royally didn't give a crap tonight.

I think any NHL player would struggle mightily to muster even just an inkling of emotion or will to play in Pre-Season Game #8 heading into Thanksgiving weekend. This Exhibition schedule is almost as ridiculous as the season opening in mid-October.

[taxbuster]

I watched part of the 2nd and all of the 3rd last night and saw nothing that gave me any hope the Flames would go anywhere this year. They looked ragged, undisciplined and out of synch. Not great.

Hope they clean up all of that...FAST.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

LOL, I know where Bobrovsky is on here, but other than that I have no idea what to take from this. You ok?

Basically, there is a rough bell curve for performance (randomly distributed around .910), with little to no correlation from salary.

He's saying 'don't spend a lot of money on goaltending, because it doesn't get you better goaltending'

And it is hard to argue that point.

[Yamer]

TIL Ruslan Zainullin is still listed as a Scratch in the game summary. Couple other names on that list that I haven't heard in a long time.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Yamer

TIL Ruslan Zainullin is still listed as a Scratch in the game summary. Couple other names on that list that I haven't heard in a long time.

He's been invisible for the last number of seasons so the scratch is deserved.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Savvy27

Agreed. I really hope they were just using the preseason to try some things out because the lines weren't working.

Mangiapane Backlund Coleman should be the starting point. If Mang was great with other groups and you need a goal scorer for Huberdeau then go for it, but he's not. He's exceptional in one spot and that is a top end checking line that contributes solid offence. He scored 35 goals in that role!

Personally, I still believe that if you want to have consistent, reliable offence then you play the most talented offensive players together. For the Flames that is Huberdeau-Kadri-Lindholm. It sucks that Kadri and Lindholm are both good centers, but I don't think the trade off is worth it to enjoy their defensive prowess if the team can't score at 5v5. Coronato may fit with Huberdeau but it's a lot to ask of a rookie to play against top D pairs every night. We actually saw this line a bunch in the game vs the Canucks but it was mostly in the third when the veterans had checked out.

Here is what I would try:

Huberdeau Kadri Lindholm (Kadri/Lindy share C role and take faceoffs on strong sides)
Mangiapane Backlund Coleman
Sharangovich Dube Coronato
Pelletier Ruzicka Duehr (Hunt/Schwindt/Zary in until Pelts returns)

Give the top two lines ~40 minutes a game and let the bottom two lines fight it out every game for minutes. Peters may be a bad person but he was a good bench manager who would play the top 9 every game in the third period based on how they performed that night. Let's get back to that.

I get what you’re saying, but I don’t like making Lindholm a wing. He is a top C, and Kadri - Huberdeau isn’t a fit. Kadri is a puck … carrier.

Coronato is a shooter. Huberdeau is an elite passer. Huby finds Coronato, Coronato shoots. The other option is Mangiapane. He is being paid because he showed he could score. But when he was scoring, he didn’t score a lot of pretty ones. I remember a lot of ugly ones with net drive. But I don’t think we have seen as much of that since he signed his deal.

I would like to see this as the top 9.

Huberdeau - Lindholm - Coronato
Sharangovich - Kadri - Dube
Mangiapane - Backlund - Coleman

Or if top D is too much for Coronato every night, maybe put him with Backs and Coleman. They are rock solid two way, and Backs makes everyone better. Much like they had Bennett then Tkachuk with Backs and Frolik, put the young guy with a solid line where he only has to worry about his job

Huberdeau - Lindholm - Sharangovich
Mang - Kadri - Dube
Coronato - Backlund - Coleman

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Basically, there is a rough bell curve for performance (randomly distributed around .910), with little to no correlation from salary.

He's saying 'don't spend a lot of money on goaltending, because it doesn't get you better goaltending'

And it is hard to argue that point.

Chris Osgood and his Stanley Cup ring agree

[dissentowner]

To me despite what we have all heard, Lindholm looks like a guy that is not happy here. He looks checked out.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

To me despite what we have all heard, Lindholm looks like a guy that is not happy here. He looks checked out.

How so? On ice play / demeanor in interviews?

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

To me despite what we have all heard, Lindholm looks like a guy that is not happy here. He looks checked out.

Even if he isn’t happy here he will be busting his ass. More likely that he is just reverting to his career averages than checking out in a contract year

[JJolg]

On one hand I agree he looks disinterested but it’s very hard to tell if that’s because of the situation in Calgary or it’s just a vet looking to not get injured in meaningless hockey. If he still looks like he’s coasting come opening night then we have our answer

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Dan Vladar is a very good backup goaltender that has aspirations (and by Serivelli comments lately a league view) that he can be a starter.

If they think Wolf needs to play soon they can certainly waive him.

But to call him replacement level is just silliness.

that felt planted by the Flames for Frank to drive up price. It just doesn't seem like a reasonable take to me. It's a situation where we know Markstrom is untradeable, and everyone wants our top prospect to make the team, and everyone knows Vladar is the odd man out.

Frank also sort of gave away the game that "no one wants to meet their price." So is it really league perception that Vladar is starter potential, or just Flames trying to cheat somebody and get more out of this asset than they paid (3rd rounder)

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by saillias

that felt planted by the Flames for Frank to drive up price. It just doesn't seem like a reasonable take to me. It's a situation where we know Markstrom is untradeable, and everyone wants our top prospect to make the team, and everyone knows Vladar is the odd man out.

Frank also sort of gave away the game that "no one wants to meet their price." So is it really league perception that Vladar is starter potential, or just Flames trying to cheat somebody and get more out of this asset than they paid (3rd rounder)

That's a little "the plane didn't hit the pentagon" for me.

I don't think a media guy that lives in Philly is carrying water for the Flames.

His comments were pretty direct ... "this market undervalues Vladar for whatever reason"

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

How so? On ice play / demeanor in interviews?

Both.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Well obviously I would trade him for a pick if one was available. However he does have negative value IMO. Highly doubt the rumors of him being valued at a 2nd rounder. Of course Reto Berra and BSD each got a 2nd at the deadline....but I don't want wolf in the AHL til February. Just a dumb situation to have the best goalie prospect in the world log-jammed behind an abysmal starter and below average backup goalie.

Yes Vladar sucks but as you say not likely a market for an overpaid crap back-up. And even if he didn’t have a NTC no chance any team wants Markstrom, so I think it makes sense to have Wolf playing a ton in the minors and bring him up slowly.

Personally I would have put Vladar on waivers hoping someone would bite but I think the team doesn’t want to look like they are treating him badly doing that.

[browna]

Vladar had a terrible year last year, when he could've firmly take a mostly full time starter. He didn't.

Can another team and coaching turn him into a starter? That's whatever team trades for him, when their top goalie gets hurt, will say to justify the trade, and that's the situation the Flames are waiting to happen, IMO.

Whether it's goalie coaching or whatever, he's letting far too many goals go over him last year, whereas he song exhibit that tendancy before last season.

Frank just likes to stir the pot and had more agent friends he tries to appease than GM ones.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

LOL, I know where Bobrovsky is on here, but other than that I have no idea what to take from this. You ok?

I'm fine. You not knowing what to take from it (as Enoch mentioned below) is kind of what I was trying to illustrate. When you spend money on forwards and defense, you have a much better idea of knowing what you will get for the money compared to when you spend money on goaltending.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Basically, there is a rough bell curve for performance (randomly distributed around .910), with little to no correlation from salary.

He's saying 'don't spend a lot of money on goaltending, because it doesn't get you better goaltending'

And it is hard to argue that point.

She, but yes that's exactly what I was implying. Thanks for explaining.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by butterfly

I'm fine. You not knowing what to take from it (as Enoch mentioned below) is kind of what I was trying to illustrate. When you spend money on forwards and defense, you have a much better idea of knowing what you will get for the money compared to when you spend money on goaltending.



She, but yes that's exactly what I was implying. Thanks for explaining.

####, I think I knew that, sorry