He then went on to say, that to make an NHL on a full time basis, he may have to take that role. It sounds like he sees Zary as a top 9 player, but one that may need to cut his teeth on a 4th to get his foot in the door.
Cut to 2:10
I heard that as he'd need to take the role of a winger, not the 4LC
Yes, Markstrom and Vladar both had bad games, but so did Wolf. I didn't see anything from him in the games he played that said "we need to make a change right now, and get him in there".
To add to this, all three goalies each had very good games in the preseason, but the best single goaltending performance from any of them came from Vladar. Wolf most definitely did not outplay Vladar in training camp: decisions are never made on the basis of just one game.
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Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
They've been prepping us for the Wolf send down for months so whatever. But I'm mystified they think Vladar is worth a 2nd according to Seravalli. Look at his stats and caphit.
Schwindt over Zary I don't agree with but I think they see Schwindt doing better in a 4th line role.
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They've been prepping us for the Wolf send down for months so whatever. But I'm mystified they think Vladar is worth a 2nd according to Seravalli. Look at his stats and caphit.
For clarification, Saravelli has said that the perception across the League is that Vladar has starter's potential, and should return a 2nd. This is not the Flames overvaluing Vladar; this is just how soft the market is.
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Dealing with Everything from Dead Sea Scrolls to Red C Trolls
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Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
Yeah TBH I think Wolf just being "okay" in camp opened the door a little to not feel as much pressure to keep him up.
But really if Markstrom or Vladar struggle in the first 10 games, and Wolf continues to be lights out at the NHL level then I think he gets called up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saillias
They've been prepping us for the Wolf send down for months so whatever. But I'm mystified they think Vladar is worth a 2nd according to Seravalli. Look at his stats and caphit.
Schwindt over Zary I don't agree with but I think they see Schwindt doing better in a 4th line role.
I think people see some good fundamentals in Vladar...and the other thing I think they see is how much he got thrown to the wolves last year.
He got the tougher matchups, and generally the tougher starts when it came to back to backs etc, and while he did struggle in Februrary onwards he was pretty good up until that point.
Even if the numbers weren't great he was a goalie you could count on to give you a chance to win in those tough starts.
In the end IMO the best outcome remains moving Markstrom and moving forward with Vladar and Wolf after this season.
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...It is just ridiculous that Vladar has this much stock within the organization that they are stalling Wolf out simply because they think he's worth more than the market will bare. Truth be told, he's a low end backup based on his numbers. There is real risk that the Wranglers won't be as good this year with new coaching needing to get acquainted with the team and also having lost players like Philips. Wolf could very easily struggle even if he's playing at a high level.
Is it better to bring Wolf in while his confidence is high and he's had recent results worthy of promotion? Is it better to leverage his friendly contract status and lower hit? Is it better to get Wolf 25-30 starts this year so that he can challenge for a starting role next or even later this season?
I'm answering yes to all of the above and it isn't even close when I look at the potential payoff to sticking with Vladar here.
So, a couple of things:
First, the Flames are not overvaluing Vladar. Based on what Saravelli has said a few times now, the perception from across the NHL is that Vladar has starting-goalie potential, and you don't use give away a player with that sort of ceiling.
Second, I have no doubt that the Flames would prefer to have a potentially better, cheaper option to backup Markstrom right away, but they also still have time to make this decision, and clearly are very reluctant to just move Vladar for whatever is on offer. Teams have the Flames over a barrel because everyone can see what Wolf could do for the team. Add to that that Conroy is a rookie GM, and I suspect that any current offers are truly being marshalled to catch him napping.
But, to put this into a different perspective: how would you feel if the best deal available right now was a contract dump? Something that could make the Flames worse both on the ice and in terms of the cap even beyond just this season? Would you still be insisting that Conroy pulls the trigger on a deal like that, just to ensure that Wolf is on the bench(!) on opening night?
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Dealing with Everything from Dead Sea Scrolls to Red C Trolls
Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
For clarification, Saravelli has said that the perception across the League is that Vladar has starter's potential, and should return a 2nd. This is not the Flames overvaluing Vladar; this is just how soft the market is.
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The Flames also view Vladar as being a number 1. Perhaps not elite, but a NHL starter.
I get the Wolf demotion in a vacuum but it does speak to larger organizational issues with player development. He has nothing to learn in the AHL, they needed to find a way to get him NHL playing time.
Hopefully Vladar can be moved soon. Totally expect the Flames to keep Vladar all year just to lose him for nothing in free agency while frustrating and stagnating our best prospect.
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First, the Flames are not overvaluing Vladar. Based on what Saravelli has said a few times now, the perception from across the NHL is that Vladar has starting-goalie potential, and you don't use give away a player with that sort of ceiling.
Second, I have no doubt that the Flames would prefer to have a potentially better, cheaper option to backup Markstrom right away, but they also still have time to make this decision, and clearly are very reluctant to just move Vladar for whatever is on offer. Teams have the Flames over a barrel because everyone can see what Wolf could do for the team. Add to that that Conroy is a rookie GM, and I suspect that any current offers are truly being marshalled to catch him napping.
But, to put this into a different perspective: how would you feel if the best deal available right now was a contract dump? Something that could make the Flames worse both on the ice and in terms of the cap even beyond just this season? Would you still be insisting that Conroy pulls the trigger on a deal like that, just to ensure that Wolf is on the bench(!) on opening night?
Well the Flames are not over a barrel with Vladar. Just the opposite, they are dealing from a position of strength since they can store Wolf in the minors. If Vladar is in fact coveted by other teams, then Flames have those teams over a barrel.
IMO it is very hard to unequivocally state the Flames are over (or under) valuing Vladar since we have no idea what they are asking for. But we know for sure that as teams goaltending situations change, the price they may be willing to pay for him will change.
Hopefully Conroy is just being patient here which makes sense to me. You have three gaolies. One is totally unproven, and two were bad last year.
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I'm blown away with all this talk about trading Vladar. Do what it takes to trade Markstrom and make room for Wolf
Markstrom is untradeable. Even with a huge sweetener, the only teams that could afford to take on the contract and wouldn't care if he underperformed, are likely not teams he would waive to go to.
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I haven't seen anything from Vladar that makes me believe he isn't a capable NHL goalie. He had his struggles last year, but so would any goalie behind that team. There were times he vastly outplayed Markstrom, and should've been given the ball, but the rug was yanked out from under him. I guarantee we trade Vladar, and he goes on to be a good #1 on another team. Just my opinion, but obviously some people in the hockey world share my opinion.
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I think it’s prudent for the Flames to bide their time with Vladar. So many things can happen once the season starts and they have the luxury to do so. As long as they don’t let it go too long.
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Bit of a conundrum for the Flames. They need Markstrom to play very well to make him tradeable, but if he's playing well (and let's say Vladar is not at the time) it would be tough to trade him and just hope like heck Vladar and Wolf can get the team into the playoffs. Best case scenario imo is Markstrom playing like he did a couple years ago, trading Vladar for something decent, and Wolf coming up and being a capable backup.
Markstrom also has a NMC but I can't recall what the conditions of it are, or if it's a full NMC.
