Toronto Blue Jays Vs Minnesota Twins - ALWC

[Patek23]

I really hope there is a cleaning house in managment to come from this in the off season. I doubt it, but I really hope there is.

[cross16]

Pretty sad what Atkins turned this franchise into. This is 95% on him IMO. I don't even blame Schneider for Berrios I think that was very likely an Atkins call, Schneider is just the scapegoat.

Jays won't go anywhere as long as Atkins is their GM. Such promise a few years ago and I think he really killed it will all this over emphasis on defense and analytics.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I agree it was a managerial decision - I don’t believe it was Schneider though who made the decision

This had to come from above this was how they wanted the game managed today . Had too . Right ?

Maybe - even if this was the gameplan from before the game I'd think that Schneider would have had a big hand in the decision.

Personally it feels like he panicked and made the decision on the spot.

My guess is they had a discussion about bringing in Kikuchi to face the LH heavy part of the batting order...either the 2nd or 3rd time through the rotation...and when there was potentially a sign of trouble.

My gut is he panicked and pulled the trigger too early when Berrios walked the lead off man.

If that was the 5th or 6th inning and they were about to go through the third time through the order then I doubt anybody really questions it as much...but seems crazy to do it in the 4th.

[MillerTime GFG]

Vladdy's biggest contribution has been catching the pitcher's throws when there's a man on first.

You da man Vladdy.

[flamingred89]

Polanco will get a clutch hit here and score this run

[Beninho]

Not a serious team

[flamingred89]

Even better yet a Lewis 3 run bomb to stomp them out.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Romano coming in here during the 7th. I guess Hicks will pitch the 8th today.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

AA probably would have traded Vladdy early. He's mentioned in the past that assets are there to trade for stars.

And people would have freaked out when he was an MVP runner up on some other team at the age of 22 with a WAR of 6.7.

It's easy to say "they should have traded him early" after a bad season now, but this guy was an MVP finalist at 22, was still an all star and gold glove player last year with a 4.0 WAR at 23, and really this is his first mediocre season in the MLB at 24.

[Karl]

Watch Royce Lewis end us here again.

[greyshep]

Fortunately the pain will be over soon

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by greyshep

Fortunately the pain will be over soon

The game will, but the pain won't

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I would like to repeat that blaming this on "the spreadsheets" or "analytics" would be giving Schneider a pass.

There is no chance in hell that any analytics would say to take out your starting pitcher after three innings, when he hasn't been hit hard, and has 5 strike outs, and has only been through the lineup once...in order to bring in a starter who isn't a bull pen pitcher, with a man on base, in order to get a LH-LH match up.

It was a managerial decision that was just overmanaging the game that had nothing to do with analytics.

They have said several times that this exact scenario had been discussed at length, and they were ready to make a move like this. This is what analytics tells you, and it isn't bad information. All information is good.
What a manager worth anything does is ignore that information, in this instance. Had Berrios been barely hanging on it was the right move. That Berrios had been dominant makes it the wrong move. So simply a bad managerial decision.
Fortunately the Jay's have ####ed up so much more stuff that this decision is only a footnote in a long litany of errors/blunders/bad decisions in blowing yet another post season opportunity.

[flamingred89]

Jays fans went 22 years in between playoff appearances. And now a 7 year streak without a playoff win. Cleveland Browns north.

[Whynotnow]

I mean it would be fitting for this team to get shutout here. This has been their issue all year long. Brutal to remove Berrios? Yup. But the offense is the killer here.

[Jiggy_12]

Originally Posted by flamingred89

Jays fans went 22 years in between playoff appearances. And now a 7 year streak without a playoff win. Cleveland Browns north.

And that 22 year streak was somehow less painful than these past 4 years have been.

2020 - meekly lose 2 straight in the wildcard
2021 - have an exciting, historic team and miss the playoffs by a game, on the final day, due to very improbable out of town results
2022 - lose 2 straight in the wildcard including the biggest collapse in their franchise history
2023 - pathetically lose 2 straight (*assuming this result holds, which it will)

[KootenayFlamesFan]

I remember when I used to get excited when Vladdy came up to bat.

Now I don't expect anything out of him. It's sad. Any base hit now is a surprise, and a walk is an unexpected bonus.

[Mass_nerder]

Keep hitting it to center field! One day it'll actually go out!

[flamingred89]

3-0 count and you knew Vlad wasn't going to do anything with it.

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

I remember when I used to get excited when Vladdy came up to bat.

Now I don't expect anything out of him. It's sad. Any base hit now is a surprise, and a walk is an unexpected bonus.

I just hope he doesn't ground into a double!