[GDT] Jets at Flames - Preseason Game 6 - 7pmMDT - Flames.com/SN960

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Nah, it’s not that black and white for the large majority of posters. People don’t just fall into camps of “optimist” and “pessimist”. I’m pointing out that people will just create a narrative without thinking about their own biases. It’s what we heckle Oiler fans about but then do the same thing here and then also look down our nose at their fanbase so it’s intellectually dishonest (this is what I meant yesterday Textcritic).

And I was just taking the black & white view in your original post and putting it into a white & black view.

[Wastedyouth]

Lol. Vezina finalist Hellebuyck was trash too. Markstrom was great in game one and hasn't played in a week or so.

Not excuses. Just reality. Preseason success or failure has been proven time and time again to mean nothing in the regular season. But by all means, jump to conclusions!

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Preseason success or failure has been proven time and time again to mean nothing in the regular season. But by all means, jump to conclusions!

Remember all those years Oilers fans had them turning the corner because they were Stella Cup Champions only to once again miss the playoffs?

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Inferno

Remember all those years Oilers fans had them turning the corner because they were Stella Cup Champions only to once again miss the playoffs?

One year Jon Sim scored like 8 goals in preseason so I took him earlyish in a pool draft. Stupid. Ty Rattie absolutely destroyed the competition for the Oilers one year and was in the AHL early that year anyway

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

One year Jon Sim scored like 8 goals in preseason so I took him earlyish in a pool draft. Stupid. Ty Rattie absolutely destroyed the competition for the Oilers one year and was in the AHL early that year anyway

My story (which I think I tell every pre-season - apologies) was Hannu Jarvenpaa, who - right after Selanne came over and blew the league away - put up 4 goals in a pre-season game. One person in my pool took Jarvenpaa 2nd overall for the regular season pool that year. We laughed. Jarvenpaa got 1 goal (and 11 for his career)

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Lol. Vezina finalist Hellebuyck was trash too. Markstrom was great in game one and hasn't played in a week or so.

Not excuses. Just reality. Preseason success or failure has been proven time and time again to mean nothing in the regular season. But by all means, jump to conclusions!

I'm not saying the preseason is the time to make conclusions about veterans, but I can think of one good chance Vancouver had in that game on Markstrom in the 2nd period. And it's not exactly like they sent over an NHL team.

We can't keep letting in one stinker goal per game. Once every 5-6 games, sure. They're human beings. But once a game means you aren't prepared to play.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by butterfly

I'm not saying the preseason is the time to make conclusions about veterans, but I can think of one good chance Vancouver had in that game on Markstrom in the 2nd period. And it's not exactly like they sent over an NHL team.

We can't keep letting in one stinker goal per game. Once every 5-6 games, sure. They're human beings. But once a game means you aren't prepared to play.

Defense was trash first half of the game. The breakout passes gave Winnipeg a lot of quality chances.

[dammage79]

The time to worry about Markstrom begins when he starts costing the team points. If he starts off like he did last season, oh boy.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by DJones

Defense was trash first half of the game. The breakout passes gave Winnipeg a lot of quality chances.

In the Winnipeg game, yes. I was talking about the Vancouver game.

The stinker goal in the Winnipeg game was the 4-4 one.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by butterfly

In the Winnipeg game, yes. I was talking about the Vancouver game.

The stinker goal in the Winnipeg game was the 4-4 one.

How does a bad goal late in the second = "not prepared to play". I think he wasn't ready all right - he didn't expect the horrific giveaway, especially as they were still announcing the Flames' goal, and wasn't prepared right for the shot. That's on him, but I will expect better ofcus when the game means something.

Coronato's goal was arguably weaker on Hellebuyck

[Paulie Walnuts]

I think outside maybe a few goalie we are going to see goalie stats tumble a bit and that is just how its going to be.

The league has a lot of talented players who can score now, the last 2 seasons have been the highest scoring seasons since the early 90's.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

How does a bad goal late in the second = "not prepared to play". I think he wasn't ready all right - he didn't expect the horrific giveaway, especially as they were still announcing the Flames' goal, and wasn't prepared right for the shot. That's on him, but I will expect better ofcus when the game means something.

Coronato's goal was arguably weaker on Hellebuyck

Pretty much what I'm saying. You prepare to play an entire game and not the first one minute.

Coronato's goal was a PP snipe that had some people in the GT talking about it reminding them of Iginla. Not sure how you can blame Hellebuyck for that one.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Pretty much what I'm saying. You prepare to play an entire game and not the first one minute.

Coronato's goal was a PP snipe that had some people in the GT talking about it reminding them of Iginla. Not sure how you can blame Hellebuyck for that one.

LOL. When our kid scores long range it's a snipe. When a kid does it against our team it's a softy.

Gustaffson was actually at a better angle to score from IMO. And Markstrom had less time to react because it was a giveaway from the boards.

[rhino]

Originally Posted by Inferno

Remember all those years Oilers fans had them turning the corner because they were Stella Cup Champions only to once again miss the playoffs?

I miss when they used to hand out the Stella Cup for being pre season champs

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

LOL. When our kid scores long range it's a snipe. When a kid does it against our team it's a softy.

Gustaffson was actually at a better angle to score from IMO. And Markstrom had less time to react because it was a giveaway from the boards.

Bit of a difference, I'd say. Muffin:



PP Snipe:

[GioforPM]

It's a muffin because your still shows that? ???

Centre ice on a giveaway off a flubbed breakout (hence goalie deeper in net) v 45 degrees on a pass across - Hellebuyck clearly set.

The point is that because it's Markstrom, everyone pounces. Because it's Coronato, everyone cheers.

[Fan in Exile]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

LOL. When our kid scores long range it's a snipe. When a kid does it against our team it's a softy.

Gustaffson was actually at a better angle to score from IMO. And Markstrom had less time to react because it was a giveaway from the boards.

I agree people shouldn't over-react about Markstrom based on a preseason game, although it's totally understandable to be uneasy.

But that 4-4 goal was easily the worst goal allowed by either goalie last night. Weak shot, great view of it and it went right through him. You're starting really early with minimizing every bad goal Markstrom lets in. There's good reason for Flames fans to be more concerned about Markstrom than Jrrs fans would be about Hellebuyck

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

I agree people shouldn't over-react about Markstrom based on a preseason game, although it's totally understandable to be uneasy.

But that 4-4 goal was easily the worst goal allowed by either goalie last night. Weak shot, great view of it and it went right through him. You're starting really early with minimizing every bad goal Markstrom lets in. There's good reason for Flames fans to be more concerned about Markstrom than Jrrs fans would be about Hellebuyck

It was a bad goal. So was the Coronato goal - that's my point. I'm not minimizing a bad goal - I'm just not getting overwrought about it.

I don't know why there's more worry about Markstrom than Hellebuyck, BTW. Marlstrom came off a Vezina calibre season and stunk. Hellebuyck has stink in him - see last year's POs.

ETA:

I also think Hellebuyck looked pretty bad on goals 2 and 3. Big rebound on 2 and sliding all around on 3.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

I agree people shouldn't over-react about Markstrom based on a preseason game, although it's totally understandable to be uneasy.

But that 4-4 goal was easily the worst goal allowed by either goalie last night. Weak shot, great view of it and it went right through him. You're starting really early with minimizing every bad goal Markstrom lets in. There's good reason for Flames fans to be more concerned about Markstrom than Jrrs fans would be about Hellebuyck

Agreed we should not be panicking yet about Markstrom. Although that 4th goal was very reminiscent of last season. Forgetting about the quality of the scoring chance… it was the timing that hurts more. Felt like the flames constantly struggled to build momentum last year. Always allowed the first goal against early in the game despite outplaying teams by a wide margin. And it felt like every time the flames tied the game or took a lead… the opposing team would score 1 minute later.


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[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

LOL. When our kid scores long range it's a snipe. When a kid does it against our team it's a softy.

Gustaffson was actually at a better angle to score from IMO. And Markstrom had less time to react because it was a giveaway from the boards.

One is a snipe top shelf.

One is a muffin shot at mid-body height.

If you don't see the differences in those shots, there's not a lot else to be said.

Being overly defensive of Markstrom doesn't make sense at this stage. He's been the worst starting goalie in the league since Game 1 Vs. the Oilers. He needs to prove himself, and so far he's had a good game and a terrible game in pre-season. Nothing has been settled.

Markstrom needs to be better than last year, and we don't need to make excuses for him.