Do you support leaving the CPP and creating a new Alberta Pension Plan?

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

Thirdly, one has to convince oneself that we have enough talent and integrity in the people running our government to invest wisely, and the opposition have managed to cast enough doubt on that.

My distrust in the UCP has absolutely nothing to do with anything the opposition party has done to "cast doubt". Believe it or not, but many of us are perfectly capable of evaluating a political party/candidate based solely on their own words and actions and not based on anything the opposition has to say about them.

[cral12]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

No.

I do not support the APP. I would not support if it was by the NDP. I would not support it rain or shine. I would not support it drunk off wine. I do not like the UCP. Their ideas are bad for you and me. I do not like them, Sam I Am. All these idiots need to get canned.

This X 1000.

This group of politicians are far from economic experts, unless you emphasize the con. Tired of the conservative math in this province and beyond especially when it comes to spending millions to advertise for this. WTAF is going on and how is this even allowed.

Wish there was an actual, truly progressive conservative party in this province and federally.

The current group are as embarrasing AF.

[Hack&Lube]

The Alberta government has demonstrated no ability to forecast, plan, and secure for the future monetarily.

If our rainy day fund didn't keep getting dipped into and abused, then maybe. Norway copied our plan but they actually used it properly to reinvest their O&G money and now their citizens are sitting on bank while we are sitting on uncertainty.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

The Alberta government has demonstrated no ability to forecast, plan, and secure for the future monetarily.

If our rainy day fund didn't keep getting dipped into and abused, then maybe. Norway copied our plan but they actually used it properly to reinvest their O&G money and now their citizens are sitting on bank while we are sitting on uncertainty.

I generally agree with you, but I also wonder if there is an alternate universe where Alberta did that and what happened. I'm not sure that the rest of the country would be super cool with a province having say $500bn in a fund. I have a feeling that would create a lot of problems.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Slava

I generally agree with you, but I also wonder if there is an alternate universe where Alberta did that and what happened. I'm not sure that the rest of the country would be super cool with a province having say $500bn in a fund. I have a feeling that would create a lot of problems.

Lol... ok, humor us and tell us what totally theoretical and unproven problems you foresee this creating?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Lol... ok, humor us and tell us what totally theoretical and unproven problems you foresee this creating?

I don't know why I'm bothering, but sure. How do you think that it would influence things in the country where one of the ten provinces has $500bn in the bank and the other provinces have virtually zero? Do you think that other governments would start to look at that cash and try to grab at it? With Norway, being sovereign is a different structure. They can have that cash there and there is no one else with designs on it at all.

I do also wonder about governments within Alberta though. You think that separation and separatists are a factor today, imagine those factions with that cash sitting there. Suddenly, the economic benefits of staying Canada become questionable if you have a province that has a "sovereign" wealth fund of significant size.

Let me be clear, I'm not saying that we shouldn't build up the Heritage Trust Fund, and not saying that we shouldn't have done it years ago. But I do wonder what issues come as part of that, because I think it's naive to think that everything is the same only we have a pile of money there.

[flamesfever]

Thank you for your thoughts. I do believe that Alberta could go it alone with regard to having their own APP, providing certain safeguards and oversights were in place. However, I agree that it may come with increased risk.

I have long held the opinion that we should become more independent from Ottawa. I only wish we had someone like a Lougheed to lead the charge. It seems to me that Smith may be getting poor advise, e.g. her Tell the Feds campaign against Ottawa's Clean Energy Regulation, and her use of the Sovereignty Act.

Anyway, as I see it, the debate for an APP is only just beginning. I don't think there is any way Smith is going to be able to ram through an APP without getting a strong mandate by way of a referendum. And even if it ever happened, there would have to be very strong safeguards from government interference and an effective oversight.

Even if the whole APP thing died down, at least the exercise may make the rest of Canada realize how important Alberta is to the rest of the Country.

[CliffFletcher]

The funny thing is the only way an APP would have any hope in hell of passing a referendum is if the Liberals win the next federal election. Alberta sovereignty is driven by resentment of the federal government, and that softens when the Conservatives are in power federally.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

Thank you for your thoughts. I do believe that Alberta could go it alone with regard to having their own APP, providing certain safeguards and oversights were in place. However, I agree that it may come with increased risk.

I have long held the opinion that we should become more independent from Ottawa. I only wish we had someone like a Lougheed to lead the charge. It seems to me that Smith may be getting poor advise, e.g. her Tell the Feds campaign against Ottawa's Clean Energy Regulation, and her use of the Sovereignty Act.

Anyway, as I see it, the debate for an APP is only just beginning. I don't think there is any way Smith is going to be able to ram through an APP without getting a strong mandate by way of a referendum. And even if it ever happened, there would have to be very strong safeguards from government interference and an effective oversight.

Even if the whole APP thing died down, at least the exercise may make the rest of Canada realize how important Alberta is to the rest of the Country.

No, it won't they'll just get more annoyed that they had to pay attention to Alberta for 30 seconds. The idea that if we just rabble rouse enough, the rest of the country will finally realize we exist is a delusional one. If that's all we are doing it for, we should stop wasting money now, becuase it doesn't work.

It's like when Bronconier used to whine and complain about the Provincial government not giving Calgary what he wanted. It never got us anywhere. it took a collaborative approach by Nenshi to get things done.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

Thank you for your thoughts. I do believe that Alberta could go it alone with regard to having their own APP, providing certain safeguards and oversights were in place. However, I agree that it may come with increased risk.

I have long held the opinion that we should become more independent from Ottawa. I only wish we had someone like a Lougheed to lead the charge. It seems to me that Smith may be getting poor advise, e.g. her Tell the Feds campaign against Ottawa's Clean Energy Regulation, and her use of the Sovereignty Act.

Anyway, as I see it, the debate for an APP is only just beginning. I don't think there is any way Smith is going to be able to ram through an APP without getting a strong mandate by way of a referendum. And even if it ever happened, there would have to be very strong safeguards from government interference and an effective oversight.

Even if the whole APP thing died down, at least the exercise may make the rest of Canada realize how important Alberta is to the rest of the Country.

This also makes sense when Alberta is a "have" province but what happens if O&G suddenly dries up in the next 10-20 years after worldwide vehicle electrification and we failed to diversify?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

This also makes sense when Alberta is a "have" province but what happens if O&G suddenly dries up in the next 10-20 years after worldwide vehicle electrification and we failed to diversify?

We would never fail to diversify. Sure, we've been talking about it for 30 years, but that's just becuase we haven't needed to. When the time comes, we'll be the bell of the diversification ball. Just you wait and see. Until then, triple meat, baby!

[firebug]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

Thank you for your thoughts. I do believe that Alberta could go it alone with regard to having their own APP, providing certain safeguards and oversights were in place. However, I agree that it may come with increased risk.

I have long held the opinion that we should become more independent from Ottawa. I only wish we had someone like a Lougheed to lead the charge. It seems to me that Smith may be getting poor advise, e.g. her Tell the Feds campaign against Ottawa's Clean Energy Regulation, and her use of the Sovereignty Act.

Anyway, as I see it, the debate for an APP is only just beginning. I don't think there is any way Smith is going to be able to ram through an APP without getting a strong mandate by way of a referendum. And even if it ever happened, there would have to be very strong safeguards from government interference and an effective oversight.

Even if the whole APP thing died down, at least the exercise may make the rest of Canada realize how important Alberta is to the rest of the Country.

This is my biggest confusion... someone like Lougheed would've been smart enough to not make that type of charge.

The idea that Lougheed was anything like this current batch of 'Conservatives' melts my brain.

[Fuzz]

Notley was a lot closer to Lougheed than Smith. So Flamesfever would rather have Notley in charge. Wonder if they voted that way...

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by firebug

This is my biggest confusion... someone like Lougheed would've been smart enough to not make that type of charge.

The idea that Lougheed was anything like this current batch of 'Conservatives' melts my brain.

This is a much more ruthless Liberal Federal government to deal with.

This Trudeau would have mowed over Lougheed. Not going to happen with Smith.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Yoho

This is a much more ruthless Liberal Federal government to deal with.

This Trudeau would have mowed over Lougheed. Not going to happen with Smith.

Sounds like you have a lot of respect for his tactical mind, authority, and skill in getting things done in a minority parliment.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Yoho

This is a much more ruthless Liberal Federal government to deal with.

This Trudeau would have mowed over Lougheed. Not going to happen with Smith.

Trudeau junior more formidable than Trudeau senior? That’s a new one.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Sounds like you have a lot of respect for his tactical mind, authority, and skill in getting things done in a minority parliment.

Schrodinger's Prime Minister: in the minds of conservatives like Yoho, Justin Trudeau is a bumbling idiot drama teacher while simultaneously being a greater political mastermind than his own father and is capable of outmaneuvering Peter freaking Lougheed of all people.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Trudeau junior more formidable than Trudeau senior? That’s a new one.

Ruthless.

[para transit fellow]

A New Tool to Make Sense of an Alberta Pension Plan

https://financesofthenation.ca/2023/...-pension-plan/


the actual APP simulator:
https://financesofthenation.ca/alber...lan-simulator/

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Ruthless.

I wasn’t old enough to know, but Trudeau Jr seems more unethical that’s for sure.