Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

For the last five days, both Liberals and Conservatives have done nothing but talk about who is and isn't to blame for this mistake.

What an unbelievable waste of time.

Maybe it's always been like this. Maybe social media has made it more apparent. The only realization that has come to me out of all of this is simply how much I hate the government.

Social media and a 24hr news cycle skewed by opinion pieces, bloggers and far right/left media (that wouldn't exist without the internet) has changed society. I miss the days of the 6:00pm news and not having to hear everyones politics constantly.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Like it or not it’s one of the most embarrassing Canadian political moments in a long time.
It’s getting the attention it deserves.

Kudos to you for giving it that attention. I figured you’d be too busy live-streaming another hate rally to really get up for someone applauding a Nazi.

Guess it depends on who invited the Nazi.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Social media and a 24hr news cycle skewed by opinion pieces, bloggers and far right/left media (that wouldn't exist without the internet) has changed society. I miss the days of the 6:00pm news and not having to hear everyones politics constantly.

Social media has, IMO, done far more harm than good. Phones as well. Massive issues that I don’t think we understand very well.

[#-3]

I didn't follow this story because I assumed it was stupid but let me see if I have the facts right.

Liberals want to make a meaningless gesture to show that they support Ukrainian defense.

Staffer finds Ukrainian who defended the country 80 years ago, and didn't know anything about WWII.

Speaker reads statement about guy for first time in front of large crowd of people assuming he is reciting a meaningless applause line for the house.

MPs only half listening get up and cheer, because they know it's a meaningless applause line.

Someone points out defending Ukraine against Russian 80 years ago meant fighting on the side of Nazi

People actually start vetting the guy and find out, yep a little bit Nazi over there.

The guys who dog whistle to the Nazis all of the time get a weeks news cycle about how the guys who clearly dislike Nazis are supporting them through inattentiveness, and everyone fails to call those hypocrite out.

the people who don't like Nazis get mad at their own party for likely Nazi's, even though the don't, they were just being inattentive to meaningless gestures. And these dummies can get baited into yelling at themselves over anything

A senior public official steps down from his position as another gesture to appease the masses after flubbing the first gesture, and while it cost a guy his job, not completely meaningful, because we get a different person with the exact same marching orders and that guy has a great fall back job of being an MP

I wonder why people hate the left?

[KootenayFlamesFan]

The speaker stepped down because it was the speaker himself who is supposedly friendly with the guy and invited him.

And yes, the proper vetting was the easiest way to not let this happen, and it failed miserably.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

The speaker stepped down because it was the speaker himself who is supposedly friendly with the guy and invited him.

And yes, the proper vetting was the easiest way to not let this happen, and it failed miserably.

You thinking an 'Apt Pupil' scenario?

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

The speaker stepped down because it was the speaker himself who is supposedly friendly with the guy and invited him.

And yes, the proper vetting was the easiest way to not let this happen, and it failed miserably.

He was naive, didn't know his history, and made a big mistake. He acknowledged his mistake and made a sincere apology. I don't believe for a second that he was malicious or intended to glorify the nazis. Other people who should have known the history stood up and clapped and are given a free pass.

By all other accounts he has been a good speaker and well respected. It's ridiculous to me that this is the end for his career and everyone else gets no blame at all. Glad to see that Trudeau finally realized that he needed to apologize (not personally but) on behalf of the government but the way they have thrown Rota under the bus, referring to him as an independent and offering no support, is pretty bad. Same goes for the opposition vilifying the guy like he's some nazi lover.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

The speaker stepped down because it was the speaker himself who is supposedly friendly with the guy and invited him.

And yes, the proper vetting was the easiest way to not let this happen, and it failed miserably.

Makes you wonder why people hate the left. Lol. /green.

Overall, it’s quite something to see the Liberal apologists out in full force (not directed at you KKF).

“Don’t pay any attention to what the government is doing”. “ The left hates nazis more than the right”.

Absurd.

Anyways - cheers to all and good night!

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Makes you wonder why people hate the left. Lol. /green.

Overall, it’s quite something to see the Liberal apologists out in full force (not directed at you KKF).

“Don’t pay any attention to what the government is doing”. “ The left hates nazis more than the right”.

Absurd.

Anyways - cheers to all and good night!

To be honest, this is one time I don't see many on the left making excuses at all. Most people seem to be on the same page that this was a pretty big misstep. However or whoever you place the blame, that's one thing, but it shouldn't have happened. Personally I believe the PMO should be vetting people pretty seriously, especially when a world leader is in the crowd.

Do you see these apologists here, or just on the internet in general?

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Jacks

He was naive, didn't know his history, and made a big mistake. He acknowledged his mistake and made a sincere apology. I don't believe for a second that he was malicious or intended to glorify the nazis. Other people who should have known the history stood up and clapped and are given a free pass.

By all other accounts he has been a good speaker and well respected. It's ridiculous to me that this is the end for his career and everyone else gets no blame at all. Glad to see that Trudeau finally realized that he needed to apologize (not personally but) on behalf of the government but the way they have thrown Rota under the bus, referring to him as an independent and offering no support, is pretty bad. Same goes for the opposition vilifying the guy like he's some nazi lover.

I'm not saying that either. But if he knew him personally (maybe I'm wrong and he didn't know him that well) there should be at least some questions asked before pointing him out in the House and giving him a standing O with the leader of Ukraine in attendance.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

I'm not saying that either. But if he knew him personally (maybe I'm wrong and he didn't know him that well) there should be at least some questions asked before pointing him out in the House and giving him a standing O with the leader of Ukraine in attendance.

Did he really know him personally or did he he just get introduced to the guy as someone who fought the Russians in defence of Ukraine?

How many people these days are really that sharp and educated on events that happened 80 years ago? I despise most politicians but they are still just people.

We know the obvious bad guys but most don't know the the details of every country and how they were involved in WW2. I'm extremely suspicious these days and would have done an internet search on anyone I'm associated with but don't blame a politician who has a full staff not to mention a government that should be covering my ass. I like to think that I know more than the average person about world history and would have caught it but might not have.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Did he really know him personally or did he he just get introduced to the guy as someone who fought the Russians in defence of Ukraine?

How many people these days are really that sharp and educated on events that happened 80 years ago? I despise most politicians but they are still just people.

We know the obvious bad guys but most don't know the the details of every country and how they were involved in WW2. I'm extremely suspicious these days and would have done an internet search on anyone I'm associated with but don't blame a politician who has a full staff not to mention a government that should be covering my ass. I like to think that I know more than the average person about world history and would have caught it but might not have.

I thought I read at least a couple times that he knew him personally. If not, my bad.

I don't think we're really disagreeing on much. My opinion is that the PMO should be catching stuff like that, especially with world leaders in attendance. One thing for him to be in attendance, another to have people rise to give him a standing ovation. Better make sure people are standing like that for all the right reasons.

[Jacks]

I'm not trying to attack you but I think Rota was done wrong here, and I'm traditionally a Conservative. I hate how people these days can have their careers destroyed for a mistake when they meant to do a good thing.

I don't even really blame the PMO, and I really dislike the current PMO (a lot) , but someone should have caught this (Freeland?). Regardless we had hundreds of people who stood and clapped without knowing, just like Rota. I hate seeing good people thrown to the wolves for an honest mistake.

[Azure]

Maybe someone should dig up Freeland's family history and ask her if she knew who she was applauding....

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

To be honest, this is one time I don't see many on the left making excuses at all. Most people seem to be on the same page that this was a pretty big misstep. However or whoever you place the blame, that's one thing, but it shouldn't have happened. Personally I believe the PMO should be vetting people pretty seriously, especially when a world leader is in the crowd.

Do you see these apologists here, or just on the internet in general?

I was probably reading too much into some of the comments on here. I think everyone can agree it was a royal #### up by the Liberals.

I think I mistook people’s comments that are attacking the right as a defence of of the left. Which was probably not correct.

Is this specific blunder enough to make a strong Liberal supporter not vote for them? Probably not on its own, we will see.

[Azure]

At this point if someone is voting Liberal, they clearly have had some blinders on for a while, so this isn't going to sway them.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

The speaker stepped down because it was the speaker himself who is supposedly friendly with the guy and invited him.

And yes, the proper vetting was the easiest way to not let this happen, and it failed miserably.

Honestly, and I'm not giving them a pass on this, how much vetting are they doing for a 98 year old "war hero"? I feel like this was an obvious "support the troops" kind of thing that just went horribly wrong. And all of the CPC, and Zelensky were standing there applauding the guy where no one seemed to catch on that the Soviets were our allies at that point, so this guy was fighting for the other side.

Don't get me wrong, the Liberals are just involved in misstep after misstep at this point, and it's gotten ridiculous. But I have my doubts as to how much serious vetting would take place regardless of who the government of the day is.

[Fuzz]

They should just publicly announce lists of honorees weeks befroe appearance, and let the internet sort it out beforehand. Crowd source!

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Slava

Honestly, and I'm not giving them a pass on this, how much vetting are they doing for a 98 year old "war hero"? I feel like this was an obvious "support the troops" kind of thing that just went horribly wrong. And all of the CPC, and Zelensky were standing there applauding the guy where no one seemed to catch on that the Soviets were our allies at that point, so this guy was fighting for the other side.

Don't get me wrong, the Liberals are just involved in misstep after misstep at this point, and it's gotten ridiculous. But I have my doubts as to how much serious vetting would take place regardless of who the government of the day is.

Yeah....its actually so obvious that it seems like anyone with even a half-assed passing, Jr. High level of knowledge about WWII could have seen this coming from miles away.

What Clown vetted this guy? Mr. Magoo? Rota is falling on his sword for this, but every single person involved in letting this get that far should be summarily fired for incompetence.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Locke

Yeah....its actually so obvious that it seems like anyone with even a half-assed passing, Jr. High level of knowledge about WWII could have seen this coming from miles away.

What Clown vetted this guy? Mr. Magoo? Rota is falling on his sword for this, but every single person involved in letting this get that far should be summarily fired for incompetence.

But I guess that is my point. No one vetted this guy. Someone (ostensibly Rota) said "hey, let's bring in this Ukrainian war hero for this and it's a slam dunk for us to look great" and that was it. And honestly, like most other standing ovations, some people stood up and in a minute everyone was standing up applauding the guy.