View Poll Results: Do you support leaving the CPP and creating a new Alberta Pension Plan?
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I consider myself a Conservative and support an APP
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14 |
4.05% |
I consider myself a Conservative and do not support an APP
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76 |
21.97% |
I do not consider myself a Conservative and support an APP
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8 |
2.31% |
I do not consider myself a Conservative and do not support an APP
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227 |
65.61% |
I don't know
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21 |
6.07% |
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09-27-2023, 07:49 PM
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#22
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lazypucker
I am geniunely curious on how the CPP works.
Are there any fund managers investing and growing the money in the plan? Or is it just using young taxpayers' money to pay the old retirees?
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https://www.cppinvestments.com/the-f...annual-report/
The info is public domain.
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09-27-2023, 08:00 PM
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#23
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzz
With returns like that, it's too bad there isn't a "manged by CPP" ETF Canadians could invest in. Far better for most than gambling in the stock market, or using some schisty "broker" who does what their name says for you.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzz
Been there, lost that. Not something I'd recommend to anyone. Particularly knowing what I know now about them. Did you miss my "broker" quip?
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Oh I got it, and it’s hilarious. I just think the entire sector gets a bad rap because of some bad actors.
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09-27-2023, 08:05 PM
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#24
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Calgary
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I think an Alberta Pension Plan is an absolutely horrible idea. The CPP is well run and it's always better to have a bigger pool.
I 100% don't trust the UCP about anything. I especially don't trust them to run an APP at arms' length. I think they are pushing this for one of two reasons. 1) They want to use the money to fund their pet projects and supporters and don't give a #### about Albertans in general. 2) They know that it isn't possible and are using this to push for separation or inflame the Alberta vs Canada rhetoric even more. (Can they seriously stop doing this? I don't care what parties are involved, I want governments to work together, not waste time and resources complaining.)
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09-27-2023, 08:31 PM
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#25
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amethyst
I think an Alberta Pension Plan is an absolutely horrible idea. The CPP is well run and it's always better to have a bigger pool.
I 100% don't trust the UCP about anything. I especially don't trust them to run an APP at arms' length. I think they are pushing this for one of two reasons. 1) They want to use the money to fund their pet projects and supporters and don't give a #### about Albertans in general. 2) They know that it isn't possible and are using this to push for separation or inflame the Alberta vs Canada rhetoric even more. (Can they seriously stop doing this? I don't care what parties are involved, I want governments to work together, not waste time and resources complaining.)
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A bigger Heritage Fund to pilfer.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
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09-27-2023, 09:03 PM
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#26
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Powerplay Quarterback
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I voted as a conservative not wanting an APP .
I am conservative; the UCP is not!
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09-27-2023, 09:04 PM
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#27
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: North of the River, South of the Bluff
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This poll is a microchasm of Canada. Lots of loud self righteous voices, yet the results Don't match the comments. Lots of folks going to be shocked and upset next election.
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09-27-2023, 09:12 PM
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#28
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDutch
This poll is a microchasm of Canada. Lots of loud self righteous voices, yet the results Don't match the comments. Lots of folks going to be shocked and upset next election.
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They don't? In this thread the comments are universally against the APP and right now the vote is 106-7 against it. Seems pretty consistent to me.
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09-27-2023, 09:21 PM
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#29
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacks
Well in that case you wouldn't consider yourself a Conservative right?
Pretty easy then to pick one of the 3rd or 4th options.
The idea was to get a sample of people who were more likely to support the UCP.
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Despite popular belief the definitions of liberal and conservative are very subjective.
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09-27-2023, 10:20 PM
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#30
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: back in the 403
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I'm definitely nervous about this. As is my staunch lifer Conservative father approaching retirement, he's not happy at all. Really hoping this goes sideways before it can happen...
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09-27-2023, 11:20 PM
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#32
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Franchise Player
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Any of the pro APP posters want to share which set of numbers they believe, why they select that dataset and why that leads them to prefer an APP?
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09-27-2023, 11:21 PM
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#33
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iggy_oi
Despite popular belief the definitions of liberal and conservative are very subjective.
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You have used a small ‘C’ not a large ‘C’ like in the poll.
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09-28-2023, 05:06 AM
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#34
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Ate 100 Treadmills
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The younger and harder working argument isn't that great. CPP isn't an automatic entitlement. What you get is based on what each individual put in.
I mean sure a younger population has more people paying in now, but the people collecting paid into it their entire lives. Eventually the people paying in now will collect their fair share, based on what they paid in.
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09-28-2023, 05:14 AM
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#35
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blankall
The younger and harder working argument isn't that great. CPP isn't an automatic entitlement. What you get is based on what each individual put in.
I mean sure a younger population has more people paying in now, but the people collecting paid into it their entire lives. Eventually the people paying in now will collect their fair share, based on what they paid in.
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Did the original post not cover that?
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09-28-2023, 08:01 AM
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#36
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Had an idea!
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This is being framed as as 'we don't like the feds' issue. So lets play that game.
Don't like the feds.
Think the feds are screwing Alberta over.
Think the Liberals are morons.
Think the BoC has been acting like a drunk kid on crack.
Think the entire economic outlook for Canada is dog####.
Think other provinces are happy milking the Alberta Advantage.
Etc
Etc
Etc
But.
CPP is well run. Well designed. Results are there, have been there across multiple governments. They have managed their way through recessions, austerity, stupid government spending, on and on and on. Oh, and they have had the balls to look ahead 20-30 years and realize gotta pay more in to get the program healthy.
Why, why, why would ANYONE look at it as ANYTHING but a massive success, and especially these days a major bright spot for Canada.
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09-28-2023, 08:05 AM
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#37
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Franchise Player
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A better question is "why would anyone who voted for Smith be surprised and disappointed she is doing this?"
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09-28-2023, 08:08 AM
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#38
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGG
I also don’t trust Albertans to think long term. We continuously choose short term tax breaks / spending over saving. When Prentice asked us to look in the mirror we booted him. A PST would be political suicide despite the fact that having one would have enabled us not to be reliant on oil by now. In general we chose short term prosperity over long. We are not a group of voters who should be in charge of a defined benefit pension plan.
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A substantial number of people living (and voting) in Albertan are just here to make money during their peak earning years, and then return to elsewhere in Canada when the energy industry declines, or to retire. They don’t concern themselves with the strength of public health care or education in the province 30 or 40 years down the road. In that light, it’s understandable that maximizing their take-home pay here and now is their overriding political concern.
So no, I don’t trust voters in this province to make wise long-term decisions.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
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Last edited by CliffFletcher; 09-28-2023 at 08:13 AM.
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09-28-2023, 08:29 AM
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#39
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evil of fart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CliffFletcher
A substantial number of people living (and voting) in Albertan are just here to make money during their peak earning years, and then return to elsewhere in Canada when the energy industry declines, or to retire. They don’t concern themselves with the strength of public health care or education in the province 30 or 40 years down the road. In that light, it’s understandable that maximizing their take-home pay here and now is their overriding political concern.
So no, I don’t trust voters in this province to make wise long-term decisions.
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Good point. It's also such a problem with democracies in general. How do you compel somebody to vote for the best interests of the collective versus their own self interests? Unfortunately, you can't, but how cool would it be if you could?
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09-28-2023, 08:46 AM
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#40
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blankall
The younger and harder working argument isn't that great. CPP isn't an automatic entitlement. What you get is based on what each individual put in.
I mean sure a younger population has more people paying in now, but the people collecting paid into it their entire lives. Eventually the people paying in now will collect their fair share, based on what they paid in.
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I voted no switch. But the people collecting now didn't pay their fair share. Every contribution year before the changes in the '90s someone is collecting on they underpaid.
Edited to add: that's why the argument that Alberta's population could age doesn't make any difference. It isn't that younger is necessarily better going forward. It's that the ratio of people paying their share plus a bit extra now to the people who didn't cover their share before the 90s changes is higher.
The "unfairness" in the system isn't geographic, it's generational.
Last edited by bizaro86; 09-28-2023 at 08:52 AM.
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