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Originally Posted by PepsiFree
The speaker and the Liberals’ process of checks and balances for who gets to enter the house are obviously at fault for making this situation possible in the first place, but I don’t know that it’s particularly hard to imagine the idea of someone hearing someone else introduced as a Nazi and… not clapping?
Wait....you actually think that was how he was introduced?
Here is how how was announced before the ovation
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Speaker Anthony Rota introduced Hunka as "a Ukrainian Canadian war veteran from the Second World War who fought for Ukrainian independence against the Russians" and "a Ukrainian hero and a Canadian hero."
This speaks to the historical ignorance of our politicians. Who exactly did they think were fighting against the Russians for ‘Ukrainian independence’ in WW2?
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Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
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Rota is expected to hold a meeting with the government and opposition House leaders at noon on Tuesday.
Should hear something later today. I'd expect a Rota resignation, but I'd like to see Trudeau apologize as well, specifically to Zelensky. Whatever vetting process they have obviously is not working at all.
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This speaks to the historical ignorance of our politicians. Who exactly did they think were fighting against the Russians for ‘Ukrainian independence’ in WW2?
Yeah, the most charitable interpretation you could make from that statement is that perhaps he fought as a partisan or something, and wasn't directly aligned with the Nazis. But even then, probably not a good idea to celebrate someone who was killing your ally's soldiers during WWII.
This speaks to the historical ignorance of our politicians. Who exactly did they think were fighting against the Russians for ‘Ukrainian independence’ in WW2?
This is what frustrates me. The guy must have been vetted by multiple people - who don’t understand modern European history.
Should hear something later today. I'd expect a Rota resignation, but I'd like to see Trudeau apologize as well, specifically to Zelensky. Whatever vetting process they have obviously is not working at all.
Agreed.
Don’t know why it’s so hard for Trudeau to make an apology, and why it’s so hard for people to understand that he should apologize. Absurd.
Yes to be fair, the choice was between Stalinist Russia (whose collectivist policies resulted in the deaths of between 3 and 5 million Ukrainians in the early 1930s - either intentionally or through incompetence) and the Germans. Many Ukrainians chose to back the Germans, not necessarily because they supported Nazism, but because they wanted to be rid of Stalin and Russia.
It is a grey area. Russians and their sympathizers would have you believe anyone who fought with the Germans was a hardcore Nazi, which isn’t true.
The problem in this case is the involvement with the Waffen SS. They weren’t the Gestapo and they did fight as regular military units, but they also committed more than their fair share of war crimes against civilians.
It's unbelievable how often this is lost on people.
Here is a list of all the Waffen-SS divisions, many of which were non-Germanic, who shared little to none of the ideology.
This speaks to the historical ignorance of our politicians. Who exactly did they think were fighting against the Russians for ‘Ukrainian independence’ in WW2?
As pointed out, the most charitable explanation is that the men and women governing Canada and hoping to govern Canada, along with the President of the Ukraine just… didn’t know who fought against the Russians in WW2?
People can play politics about this all they want, but every one of those people should be embarrassed for themselves. Stomping around demanding an apology because you were given an opportunity to make yourself look stupid and took it is par for the course though.
Trudeau should apologize to Canadians and the Ukraine for allowing this embarrassment to happen, but nobody in that room is in a position to demand one.
What makes you think they didn't share the ideology, at least any less than any German who joined the SS? Why else would these soldiers agree to be absorbed into the SS and be sent to fight to defend Germany's interests? By and large, they weren't conscripted; they were volunteers who were attracted by the idea of joining up with the Nazis.
If anything maybe this incident will help to inform people about the atrocities the Soviets committed against the Ukrainian people. How many people now really know that the Soviets ethnically cleansed millions of ukrainians through starvation? Holodomor is an unknown word to most non Ukrainians and maybe that will get changed now.
Last edited by White Out 403; 09-26-2023 at 10:10 AM.
A picture of CPC MP's meeting with Christine Anderson, leader of the AFD in Germany, which is a far right party tinged with Nazi overtones. Pierre even condemned this. She was also *barf* given a white hat at the Petroleum Club in Calgary.
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If anything maybe this incident will help to inform people about the atrocities the Soviets committed against the Ukrainian people. How many people now really know that the Soviets ethnically cleansed millions of ukrainians through starvation? Holodomor is an unknown word to most non Ukrainians and maybe that will get changed now.
The specific term “Holodomor” may not be widely recognized, but most people who have a basic knowledge of 20th century history know that the Soviets caused a famine that killed millions of Ukrainians.
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Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
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The specific term “Holodomor” may not be widely recognized, but most people who have a basic knowledge of 20th century history know that the Soviets caused a famine that killed millions of Ukrainians.
Boy, that bolded is doing a lot of heavy lifting to try and make that point
The specific term “Holodomor” may not be widely recognized, but most people who have a basic knowledge of 20th century history know that the Soviets caused a famine that killed millions of Ukrainians.
Yeah, this was part of the grade 9 curriculum when I was in junior high. Not sure what White Out is on about.
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I can actually easily understand the bulk of the MPs in attendance not turning their brain on and doing the math on the "waitjustaminnithere... he was fighting for Ukraine in WWII, that must mean he was fighting Stalin, so he must have been with the Germans - this guy's almost certainly a Nazi!" in the moment. They have no reason to expect something this insane would happen - half of them are probably barely even paying attention to what's being said during what is basically a ceremonial process with no real bearing on anything (especially since it's just the introductory portion of the ceremony). Everyone claps, you clap; that's basically your whole job here, there's no reason to expect someone to cleverly entrap them into applauding a Nazi soldier.
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I can actually easily understand the bulk of the MPs in attendance not turning their brain on and doing the math on the "waitjustaminnithere... he was fighting for Ukraine in WWII, that must mean he was fighting Stalin, so he must have been with the Germans - this guy's almost certainly a Nazi!" in the moment. They have no reason to expect something this insane would happen - half of them are probably barely even paying attention to what's being said during what is basically a ceremonial process with no real bearing on anything (especially since it's just the introductory portion of the ceremony). Everyone claps, you clap; that's basically your whole job here, there's no reason to expect someone to cleverly entrap them into applauding a Nazi soldier.
I guess people are clapping for his current work. He's done a lot now to raise awareness and money for the Ukrainian fight against Russia and we're on their side, I get that. That's why he's being honored. Government still should have vetted the guy, it all looks bad.
I'm not a historian and I always wonder.... Is a 14 year old, teenager whatever, really a nazi? Is he really responsible for the side he's fighting for or just getting drafted into and brainwashed? As has been mentioned, they were fighting for independence under Nazi funding.
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