Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Reign of Fire]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

This is facinating. These are Allegations that are being investigated, yet Justin blurts it out in the house.



I wonder how CSIS or the RCMP or whoever is "Investigating this" is reacting at having their work dragged out in public.


Especially with the timing of Justins disastrous Trip to India.



I expect that India's response is going to be immediate and heavy handed. I'm sure that Cameron McKay (our AtI is packing his bags as we speak)

Do you really believe he's going to make such a claim in the house without substantial evidence? And do you think leaders of other parties will follow suit without knowing the evidence? And what kind of a heavy-handed response do you think India can deliver?

[Ozy_Flame]

There's no way Justin brings this up in the House without getting sufficient evidence from CSIS and Minister of Public Safety to talk about it publicly. The Director of CSIS follows in accordance with the CSIS act and with the direction of Minister of Public Safety, and there are certain thresholds that must be followed for accountability to the sitting government in terms of threats, particularly on a case-by-case basis. Hell, this service even has to notify the MoPS before engaging in any activities deemed as high risk, including foreign policy risks that might damage Canada's reputation abroad.

To think this is anything of Justin going into business for himself is ludicrous and laughable at best. It's government process in its most standardized form, no matter if it's JT or angry Milhouse.

This is infuriating to see people wear their bias before even doing the most basic of research.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

There's no way Justin brings this up in the House without getting sufficient evidence from CSIS and Minister of Public Safety to talk about it publicly. The Director of CSIS follows in accordance with the CSIS act and with the direction of Minister of Public Safety, and there are certain thresholds that must be followed for accountability to the sitting government in terms of threats, particularly on a case-by-case basis. Hell, this service even has to notify the MoPS before engaging in any activities deemed as high risk, including foreign policy risks that might damage Canada's reputation abroad.

To think this is anything of Justin going into business for himself is ludicrous and laughable at best. It's government process in its most standardized form, no matter if it's JT or angry Milhouse.

This is infuriating to see people wear their bias before even doing the most basic of research.

I didnt realize Nixon was running for Prime Minister.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

There's no way Justin brings this up in the House without getting sufficient evidence from CSIS and Minister of Public Safety to talk about it publicly. The Director of CSIS follows in accordance with the CSIS act and with the direction of Minister of Public Safety, and there are certain thresholds that must be followed for accountability to the sitting government in terms of threats, particularly on a case-by-case basis. Hell, this service even has to notify the MoPS before engaging in any activities deemed as high risk, including foreign policy risks that might damage Canada's reputation abroad.

To think this is anything of Justin going into business for himself is ludicrous and laughable at best. It's government process in its most standardized form, no matter if it's JT or angry Milhouse.

This is infuriating to see people wear their bias before even doing the most basic of research.

Don’t disagree overall. To the bolded part, not sure who you are talking about?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Locke

I didnt realize Nixon was running for Prime Minister.

Angry Milhouse

[Doctorfever]

https://torontosun.com/news/national...h-leader-death

India had issued an arrest warrant against Nijjar for his advocacy for a separate Sikh state in India’s Punjab region, which activists call Khalistan. India has long maintained that these activists undermine national security, though Canada insists its citizens have freedom of speech if they don’t incite violence.

I have no doubt that Canadian security agencies are correct.

[FunkMasterFlame]

It would be nice if they would expound upon what "playing a role in his death" actually entails, as that is a pretty broad statement.

Was the killer an agent of the Indian government? Did their government just supply the gun? Buy the plane ticket? Do the RCMP even have a suspect for who pulled the trigger?

It seems pretty pretty undiplomatic to drop such a serious allegation and then not produce any evidence or insight into what "playing a role" actually means, especially in the middle of the investigation when leaking information could impact the ability to bring charges.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by FunkMasterFlame

It would be nice if they would expound upon what "playing a role in his death" actually entails, as that is a pretty broad statement.

Was the killer an agent of the Indian government? Did their government just supply the gun? Buy the plane ticket? Do the RCMP even have a suspect for who pulled the trigger?

It seems pretty pretty undiplomatic to drop such a serious allegation and then not produce any evidence or insight into what "playing a role" actually means, especially in the middle of the investigation when leaking information could impact the ability to bring charges.

Agreed. Not exactly sure why we went public with this information now, as opposed to when the investigation was complete.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Agreed. Not exactly sure why we went public with this information now, as opposed to when the investigation was complete.

I think it could be because India has been really critical of Canada lately and has been really public about it. Trudeau probably felt compelled to put everything in the open to show other countries what is actually going on and why India has been all up in our mug lately.

I really don't feel like we are getting the whole story about this though.

[PepsiFree]

Nobody had an issue with leaking information and dropping serious allegations when it came to Chinese interference, so I'm not sure why this is now an issue.

[FunkMasterFlame]

The Chinese election interference allegations were brought by government whistleblowers, there was no investigation taking place and Justin has dragged his feet as hard as possible to avoid one.

The murder investigation is ongoing and most law enforcement authorities have a strict code of silence about revealing any information that may impact their case. Justin revealing this information could have a serious repercussion on the investigation, and has already damaged relations with India (ostensibly an ally) which are now at an all-time low.

Justin does not have the credibility left to get away with dropping this bomb and then just saying "trust us".

[PsYcNeT]

I for one am fine with extrajudicial murders on sovereign land if it means we keep better diplomatic ties.

Of course this means the Libs can murder a random person on Indian soil so I hope they use their freebie wisely.

[FunkMasterFlame]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I for one am fine with extrajudicial murders on sovereign land if it means we keep better diplomatic ties.

Of course this means the Libs can murder a random person on Indian soil so I hope they use their freebie wisely.

Hence why I'm asking for more information than just "played a role", as it's such a sweeping phrase that people are seeing what they want in it.

What purpose does leaking this information at this stage serve? Why not wait until the RCMP are through their investigation and let them announce their findings? Wouldn't that have more of an impact than Justin dropping a bomb in Parliament and then playing coy about what it actually means?

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by FunkMasterFlame

Hence why I'm asking for more information than just "played a role".

They put a hit out on him. Local police, gangsters with sikh ties and CSIS warned him. He opted to not live in fear of a government he escaped.
The Indian government was apparently reporting his killing before his family had been told he died, let alone murdered.


The government will not and should not give more information than is necessary to the public. You risk exposing assets and agents by giving more information. They likely shared the information with the Five Eyes and decided there was more than enough information to come forward with this.


Whether you like or dislike Justin Trudeau you have to realize no western world leader will come forward with an accusation like this, even with the soft language being used, without being 100% certain of what they're saying.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by FunkMasterFlame

The Chinese election interference allegations were brought by government whistleblowers, there was no investigation taking place and Justin has dragged his feet as hard as possible to avoid one.

The murder investigation is ongoing and most law enforcement authorities have a strict code of silence about revealing any information that may impact their case. Justin revealing this information could have a serious repercussion on the investigation, and has already damaged relations with India (ostensibly an ally) which are now at an all-time low.

Justin does not have the credibility left to get away with dropping this bomb and then just saying "trust us".

That's not remotely true? Both RCMP and CSIS were investigating at the time, Global's source revealed details of reports and briefings in 2022. The issue was not that Trudeau was trying not to investigate (he does not control what does/doesn't get investigated), it was that what had been revealed thus far had not been sufficiently acted on and, following that, there was no public inquiry.

It has nothing to do with whether Trudeau has credibility. You're saying making intelligence information public is OK when it's about Chinese interference and not OK when it's India interference. It's somehow better to hurt relations with China than India, a country that accuses Canada of harbouring terrorists and is easily as bad or worse than China?

That's absurd.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I for one am fine with extrajudicial murders on sovereign land if it means we keep better diplomatic ties.

Of course this means the Libs can murder a random person on Indian soil so I hope they use their freebie wisely.

It's bad when Trudeau doesn't act on ongoing intelligence investigations focused on China and bad when Trudeau even mentions ongoing intelligence investigations focused on India.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I for one am fine with extrajudicial murders on sovereign land if it means we keep better diplomatic ties.

Of course this means the Libs can murder a random person on Indian soil so I hope they use their freebie wisely.

Find an owner of one of the scam call centers and use it on him.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by FunkMasterFlame

What purpose does leaking this information at this stage serve? Why not wait until the RCMP are through their investigation and let them announce their findings? Wouldn't that have more of an impact than Justin dropping a bomb in Parliament and then playing coy about what it actually means?

Change the channel on a disastrous summer?
Seriously though, with the RCMP investigating it could take years. I've lost all confidence in them.

[FunkMasterFlame]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

They put a hit out on him. Local police, gangsters with sikh ties and CSIS warned him. He opted to not live in fear of a government he escaped.
The Indian government was apparently reporting his killing before his family had been told he died, let alone murdered.


The government will not and should not give more information than is necessary to the public. You risk exposing assets and agents by giving more information. They likely shared the information with the Five Eyes and decided there was more than enough information to come forward with this.


Whether you like or dislike Justin Trudeau you have to realize no western world leader will come forward with an accusation like this, even with the soft language being used, without being 100% certain of what they're saying.

You'll forgive me if I don't believe everything Justin says, no matter how much certainty he claims to have.

He revealed this information in the midst of an ongoing investigation in the most public way possible, while withholding any additional context or information that would allow us to make a proper judgement.

[FunkMasterFlame]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

That's not remotely true? Both RCMP and CSIS were investigating at the time, Global's source revealed details of reports and briefings in 2022. The issue was not that Trudeau was trying not to investigate (he does not control what does/doesn't get investigated), it was that what had been revealed thus far had not been sufficiently acted on and, following that, there was no public inquiry.

It has nothing to do with whether Trudeau has credibility. You're saying making intelligence information public is OK when it's about Chinese interference and not OK when it's India interference. It's somehow better to hurt relations with China than India, a country that accuses Canada of harbouring terrorists and is easily as bad or worse than China?

That's absurd.

Apples and Oranges.

If you can't understand that there's a pretty big difference between a government whistleblower leaking information to the media due to inner-agency stonewalling and whitewashing, and the prime minister of a country coyly revealing diplomatic dynamite during an ongoing murder investigation I don't know what to tell you.