Roger Clemens is back with the yankees - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

InSutterWeTrust · 05-06-2007, 01:30 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2862088

Just found this on ESPN, I know its been rumoured for awhile with the yankees pitching wounds that he would sign and now its official.

transplant99 · 05-06-2007, 01:39 PM

I honestly dont believe he will have much of an impact any longer.

his age and inactivity for so long have to catch up to him sometime, and unlike in years past he cant use any "boosters" to help him along.

CaramonLS · 05-06-2007, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by transplant99

I honestly dont believe he will have much of an impact any longer.

his age and inactivity for so long have to catch up to him sometime, and unlike in years past he cant use any "boosters" to help him along.

He had a 2.30 ERA last year in half a season with the Astros. Those rules were in place last season too.

I think he'll show some decline, which is natural, but he will be the best starting Pitcher on the Yanks staff.

He shouldn't have to worry about getting run support. It was just sad how Houston couldn't do ANYTHING with him putting up spectacular performances and coming up with nothing.

transplant99 · 05-06-2007, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

He had a 2.30 ERA last year in half a season with the Astros. Those rules were in place last season too.

I think he'll show some decline, which is natural, but he will be the best starting Pitcher on the Yanks staff.

He shouldn't have to worry about getting run support. It was just sad how Houston couldn't do ANYTHING with him putting up spectacular performances and coming up with nothing.

yeah I am aware of what he did last year.

He is now another year older, a lot more out of shape than he was at this time last year, and in the American league which is just a harder league to pitch in.

I would suggest that Wang is the best pitcher on that staff bar none...when healthy anyhow.

CaramonLS · 05-06-2007, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by transplant99

yeah I am aware of what he did last year.

Well I wasn't sure since you decided to think he was in for some ultimate decline, and attributed his performances to being "assisted" in some way.

Quote:

He is now another year older, a lot more out of shape than he was at this time last year, and in the American league which is just a harder league to pitch in.

Of course he is. People have been predicting the decline of Clemens for a while, afterall, he is 44, but last year his stuff was as electric as it has always been. He pitched well at age 43 and he shouldn't have many problems doing it again.

The AL is definately harder to pitch in, but he also pitched in a Hitter's park (even though BR has the offensive numbers as below league average for Minute Maid, the dimensions do make it a hitters park, but combined with the fact that the have had great pitching combined with a pretty awful offense the last few years). The change usually affects pitchers by ~ half a run on their ERA.

Do you have a link to support that bolded part? The Article mentioned he was at playing weight. He was also involved in Astros ST too.

Quote:

I would suggest that Wang is the best pitcher on that staff bar none...when healthy anyhow.

Wang is a really interesting pitcher.

Few if any pitchers have been able to duplicate his success, especially over the long term with the kind of ratios he has managed to put up. I look forward to seeing if he crashes or thrives in the coming years. He did take that perfect game into the 8th inning on Sat, and was quite fun to watch.

But, I could see Pettitte reclaiming the #2 spot if Roger thrives. For whatever reason he seems to really pitch well with Clemens and stepped up big time when Clemens came back for the 2nd half of the season last year. Maybe helps him keep his focus or something.

transplant99 · 05-06-2007, 02:58 PM

No link....just observations of mine watching ESPN or whatever it may be.

Your point about him rejoining Pettite is a good one as well...they seem to make each other tick for some reason.

At any rate...his age has to catch up with him at some time and I believe it will be this year especially with him having to throw more innings because of an already spent bullpen.

Resolute 14 · 05-06-2007, 03:21 PM

God I wish Roger ¢lemen$ would just go away already.

The Manatee · 05-06-2007, 04:12 PM

Well...fans in Houston are reasonably pissed off. "Release Koby! [Roger's kid and an Astros farmhand]" "We never needed you anyway, Rocket!" "Yankees have a worse record than us, it's all about the money!" Et cetera, ad nauseum.

I'm an Astros fan, and I can't say enough about his pitching acumen. As for the quality of him as a human...well, A) it's sports, and he is far from the worst, and B) we all knew he was a ###### anyway.

Clemens will do just fine in the Bronx, and I think it will kick start the Yankees and get his butt buddy - pardon me, his best buddy - Andy Pettitte going. The race in the AL East is officially on.

Anyway, I'm glad 'Stros fans don't have to hold their collective breath any longer. Time to move on. We can't afford to reload every year like some teams, and losing Pettitte and Clemens in the same season should drive home the point that the Astros need to get younger.

ricoFlame · 05-06-2007, 04:21 PM

what a joke...this guy makes everyone wait until over a month into the season just to announce where he's going to play. he's working on a completely individual schedule...you're not bigger than the game roge. brutal.

bluejays · 05-06-2007, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricoFlame

what a joke...this guy makes everyone wait until over a month into the season just to announce where he's going to play. he's working on a completely individual schedule...you're not bigger than the game roge. brutal.

He is an idiot, but I'm sure he'll do fine on the Yanks roster. I remember hearing a few weeks back what was holding him back in signing with Houston or the Yanks was supposedly he wanted to be with his family, and he didn't want to travel with the team on the road or in NY, but rather spend the time with his family and have charters to NY or wherever they were playing, just from Houston to wherever on game nights (only himself). In other words, he wouldn't travel with the team, but rather would only show up on nights where he'd have to pitch. If that isn't the ultimate selfish act as a player, I don't know what is. And what's with this $28M contract for 1 year!??? That is totally out of wack. I know ARod's contract stipulates he has to be paid the highest in the majors by $1, so does this mean that ARod gets $28,000,001 this season? Again, I think Clemens will do just fine again with the Yanks, but everything about the guy just reeks of selfishness.

The Manatee · 05-06-2007, 08:41 PM

The contract is $28M pro-rated, just like his $22M pro-rated contract with Houston last year. He'll actually make about $18.5M this year.

Clever_Iggy · 05-06-2007, 10:48 PM

I dont know why everyone is on Clemens about him coming back 2 years in a row, 1/2 way through the season. He's a valuable commodity (healthy pitcher) and he had 3 teams bidding for him. I never liked Clemens, but good for him to keep himself in shape and still have the command/velocity that is required at the major league level.

He did perform well last year and he's going to take 3-4 weeks to get himself back into game shape - consider this like spring training for him. He knows that his body cannot endure an entire season and he's sought after enough to be able to come back when he wants, where he wants, and on his terms. You cant fault him for taking advantage of the market.

Clever_Iggy · 05-06-2007, 10:52 PM

...and I dont get the comments about him not going to the Astros even though they have a better record.

Clemens is going to play if its worth his while. That means going to a team that he believes can win a World Series and he wants to get market value. If 3 teams are willing to pay him a pro-rated $28M salary - good on him.

He also is somewhat of a traditionalist and I think he gets caught up/motivated by the "Yankee mystique". Im sure Anaheim or LA would have loved to have been able to get Clemens on their staff for this year. But those teams done have the tradition that the Yankees or Red Sox do, nor are they as convenient to his family as the Astros are.

Sylvanfan · 05-06-2007, 11:01 PM

Yeah, lets face it if pitching was an abundant commodity in MLB than Clemens couldn't pull this. But he knows that as soon as he says he'll come out and pitch that teams will have intersest and lots of money to throw his way. Right now MLB teams need him more than he needs to play the game and he's simply playing his hand the way he can.

The Manatee · 05-06-2007, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

...and I dont get the comments about him not going to the Astros even though they have a better record.

Well, they don't anymore...

BTW...I think in trying to proofread/edit my original post, I accidentally erased the paragraph that said (in effect) "I don't buy what my fellow Astros fans are saying."

The point the Astros fans - myself not included - are making, I think, is that with the Cards' Chris Carpenter out for almost the entire season, the Brewers still a very young team, and the Cubs...well, being the Cubs...the division is very much up for grabs. Plus, the NL is a much easier league to pitch to, and there's certainly no guarantee that the Yankees will make the playoffs this year, with the way the Red Sox are looking. You can't forget about the glut of AL Central teams this year that could stand in NY's way as far as the Wild Card goes. At least with Houston, Clemens would potentially turn the Astros into a big fish in a small pond. Once you make the playoffs, it's a whole new ballgame, and a rotation of Oswalt/Clemens/Jennings/Backe would be pretty stout in a playoff series. We've seen in the last few years that the Astros are pretty dangerous if they're able to sneak into the playoffs.

So, when Rocket says he wants to win another World Series, great...but if he wanted that, he should have gone to Boston. To have a rotation of Schilling, Beckett, Dice-K, Clemens and Wakefield would be positively insane, and with that offense? Fuhgeddaboutit.

It seems the Yankees money-whipped him into the decision, and frankly, I have no problem with that. Personally, I think it's a good move by Clemens. I'm unhappy that he's leaving Houston, sure, but the Yankee offense drives in six runs a game (compared to less than four with the Astros), and their staff has been incredibly unlucky with all the injuries they've had. They will come around, and it should be a fun race to watch between the Sox and Yanks this season.

Clever_Iggy · 05-06-2007, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Manatee

So, when Rocket says he wants to win another World Series, great...but if he wanted that, he should have gone to Boston. To have a rotation of Schilling, Beckett, Dice-K, Clemens and Wakefield would be positively insane, and with that offense? Fuhgeddaboutit.

That rotation would have been unreal. Nothing like having a future first ballot HOF as your 4th starter.

I agree with the rest of your post - the NL and especially the central would have allowed Clemens a better shot not only at the post season but also the World Series. I guess it comes down to money and the chance to win another one with the Yankees.

That being said, I think the better move, and the better story line, would have been for Clemens to go full circle and win the series with the Red Sox.

dionfan · 05-06-2007, 11:42 PM

If Clemens pitches anything like he did in Houston, with the offense the Yankees have, its an automatic 15 wins.

The Manatee · 05-06-2007, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

That being said, I think the better move, and the better story line, would have been for Clemens to go full circle and win the series with the Red Sox.

I'm in total agreement with you there. To be quite honest (to use a Sutterism), I was pulling for him to end up with Boston, despite my being an Astros homer.

Clemens going back to Boston and finally winning it all there (Buckner be damned!) would have been one of the most amazing sports stories in several years.

Clever_Iggy · 05-06-2007, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dionfan

If Clemens pitches anything like he did in Houston, with the offense the Yankees have, its an automatic 15 wins.

15 wins in approx. 25 starts would be amazing - and realistic.

On a related note: Clemen's pro-rated salary at $18.5M plus the $7.5M the Yankees have to pay in luxury tax means that the Yankees will be paying about $1M per start if Clemens reaches 25 starts.

Love him or hate him, Steinbrenner is out to win every year.

sadora · 05-07-2007, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by transplant99

I honestly dont believe he will have much of an impact any longer.

his age and inactivity for so long have to catch up to him sometime, and unlike in years past he cant use any "boosters" to help him along.

I hope it isn't so because the Yankees desperately need some pitching.