[GDT] Youngstars CGY vs VAN: 8:30 PM - Stream in OP

[Saqe]

Everything is scheisse!!!!!

[Jiri Hrdina]

[QUOTE=Teroy;8816936]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Of course they should get a pass for these games.
They don't matter. At all.

Of course it matters and the Flames young stars were disappointing. There was nothing positive to say about their performance. If it doesn't matter, why the heck would they do it?

Because it's a way of getting these guys skating, and is better than a standard scrimmage.
And it's nice for fans.
Beyond that - it doesn't matter.

Can you present any evidence that these tourneys DO matter or a signal of actual organizational prospect strength or quality of individual prospects?

From time to time a guy stands out in an unexpected way (TJ Brodie in Camrose many years ago).

Beyond that. Meh.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

The games don't count, but they do matter, in terms of giving certain guys an opportunity to showcase their skills and parlay that into a spot in big camp. It's totally fair to say that the negativity is way over the top and blown out of proportion because whether a prospect looks good or bad in Penticton isn't worth getting too high or low about, but it's not nothing. It's like the WJHC, you want your team's drafted prospects to show out. I thought Coronato and Klapka did, a bit, but you'd obviously like to see more. That isn't an indictment on the system, because winning a game in this tournament does not require you to have good prospects.

The reality is that the team just doesn't have that much on defense. Etienne Morin has talent obviously, but if the other team has two borderline NHL depth guys and a couple more solid AHL calibre guys and you have nothing of the sort, your goalie is going to take it in the teeth, inevitably.

It's going to be better tonight, the Oilers have only one guy on their blue line who played any real AHL action last year and I've never heard of him.

It's nothing like the WJHC. That is really well played hockey (except for games against the really bad teams), where talent gets to play with talent, there are systems instilled, and squads are well coached. It has structure which is important when evaluating players.

These tourney is much closer to a scrimmage. You look for hints of things, but that's about it.

(I do agree that this organization is very weak when it comes to d prospects)

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Can you present any evidence that these tourneys DO matter or a signal of actual organizational prospect strength or quality of individual prospects?

Guys legitimately parlay these tournaments into AHL jobs all the time. From there they can build their way up into an NHL career. Antoine Roussel did it with Chicago and then went on to Dallas.

Teams use this as an evaluation of these guys too, just as much as training camp is an evaluation - should we send a guy back to junior, keep him on the AHL team or bring him to main camp? Should we sign this guy we invited to an AHL deal? Again, not at all uncommon.

You can absolutely tell whether someone has certain tools or weaknesses by watching them play in these games. IMO, for guys coming from the Allsvenskan or SHL it's actually easier to judge them as players in this format than watching them in those leagues.

What you're right about is that it says nothing important about organizational depth. The Canucks would trade any player on their roster here for Coronato or Honzek. Any two players, probably. A team of more seasoned 23 year olds with AHL experience who will never have real NHL success beats a team of 19-20 year old future NHLers most of the time.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Guys legitimately parlay these tournaments into AHL jobs all the time. From there they can build their way up into an NHL career. Antoine Roussel did it with Chicago and then went on to Dallas.

Teams use this as an evaluation of these guys too, just as much as training camp is an evaluation - should we send a guy back to junior, keep him on the AHL team or bring him to main camp? Should we sign this guy we invited to an AHL deal? Again, not at all uncommon.

You can absolutely tell whether someone has certain tools or weaknesses by watching them play in these games. IMO, for guys coming from the Allsvenskan or SHL it's actually easier to judge them as players in this format than watching them in those leagues.

I don't disagree that teams are using it to evaluate players in that manner.
But fans in this thread using it to evaluate the Flames overall system or already questioning the NHL viability of a certain player - is pretty silly.

But yes in terms of back to junior/keep in camp/sign to AHL deal - yes for sure I think that's where these things do have some value for the organizations. But that's about it.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

No individual player's future is determined, or demonstrated, by their play here. But like I said above, that's true for the WJHC too. Lots of guys play worse or better than they are in that small sample in an unfamiliar setting with unfamiliar teammates, with the result that you shouldn't base strong judgments on those performances, but if you look closely you can see what they can do and what they can't do or need to work on.

But yeah as I said I agree with you about evaluating the system. Based on who's attending the Canucks probably have the worst team in this tournament in terms of future NHL ceiling. Playing against professional hockey players a couple years older than you is asking for a struggle. That's why first and second round picks aren't dominating the AHL every year.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Didn't Pelletier lay an egg last year? I wonder what became of him.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Didn't Pelletier lay an egg last year? I wonder what became of him.

He's plucked.

[D as in David]

These games are important but they won't definitively tell you an awful lot other than at either extreme.

[442scotty]

It’s pretty much garbage hockey. I’d just like to see at least one guy rise above all the garbage…

[Reggie Dunlop]

This Shinny Setback is surely a Barometer of Bombast.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by 442scotty

It’s pretty much garbage hockey. I’d just like to see at least one guy rise above all the garbage…

Yeah, because that is fun. But, when it doesn't happen, people should have a clear perspective of what that means, which is probably nothing at all.

Sent from my moto g stylus 5G (2022) using Tapatalk

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

This Shinny Setback is surely a Barometer of Bombast.

Terrific time for an applicable alliteration.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Wjhc holds a Sumner camp and a camp prior to the tournament starting I'm not sure how this showcase is even similar.

They literally get thrown together Thursday and play on Friday.

Like someone said it's essentially a glorified drop in game and probably more a get to bond with other prospects over some White Claw Beers.

[Reggie Dunlop]

No more veterans, play the kids.
No more veterans, play the kids.
No more veterans, play the kids.

No more veterans, play the kids.
No more veterans, play the kids.
No more veterans, play the kids.

Who's idea was it to play the kids?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

No more veterans, play the kids.
No more veterans, play the kids.
No more veterans, play the kids.

No more veterans, play the kids.
No more veterans, play the kids.
No more veterans, play the kids.

Who's idea was it to play the kids?

Conroy.

Let's fire him to send a message to him this is unacceptable.

[FanIn80]

The thing that irked me was that I was excited to see Honzek and Coronato play... but it seemed like they got saddled with schlubs out there who couldn't make or receive a pass and just gave the puck away whenever they had it.

I guess I'll have to wait for preseason so I can see how they do with capable linemates.

[Jimdon]

I don't see how someone being disappointed or critical of our current prospects should correlate to people thinking the fan base couldn't handle a rebuild.