Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Wormius

A survey of peoples feelings is maybe the kind of made-up stats DF was talking about.

After so much exaggerated negative sensationalism over a non-sensational amount of actual crime, a poll is taken of feelings over transit safety.

So do you think they may or and police chief are lying? Or was the spending justified?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

So do you think they may or and police chief are lying? Or was the spending justified?

The two options aren’t “they’re lying” or “the spending is justified.”

[Ozy_Flame]

Curious why cliff didn't include a link. If you're going to quote something, provide the source. That's basic interwebs yo.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Curious why cliff didn't include a link. If you're going to quote something, provide the source. That's basic interwebs yo.

https://womanact.ca/womanact-and-ang...ransit-system/

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

If you’re going to make me read through your contrarian diatribes about how great nazi’s were...

Is this where you’re at now, making up ####?

Can you go even two days on this board without playing your petty games?

[Doctorfever]

Poor guy just needs a hug, but has nobody to hug him.

Sending a big ‘ol hug your way PF. From all us at CP.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

So do you think they may or and police chief are lying? Or was the spending justified?

I already said the police chief is going to be predictable about crime and resources. Nothing is ever enough. The mayor is forced to respond to the over-exaggerated, negative spotlight.

Here’s a question for you, if all your read were negative news articles, would that alter your perception of what is actually occurring in reality, if you never experience it yourself?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Is this where you’re at now, making up ####?

Can you go even two days on this board without playing your petty games?

This seems unnecessarily antagonistic, sneering, and dismissive, Cliff. We need to stop pretending that Yoho is the only one doing this, the evidence is right here.

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Poor guy just needs a hug, but has nobody to hug him.

Sending a big ‘ol hug your way PF. From all us at CP.

As I always say, if you never get to have a little poster call you daddy offer to hug you over the internet, you have truly missed out. Best thing that can ever happen to anyone. So I wouldn’t say it’s nothing.

All love Doctorfever, thank you for seeing me.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

This seems unnecessarily antagonistic, sneering, and dismissive, Cliff. We need to stop pretending that Yoho is the only one doing this, the evidence is right here.



As I always say, if you never get to have a little poster call you daddy offer to hug you over the internet, you have truly missed out. Best thing that can ever happen to anyone. So I wouldn’t say it’s nothing.

All love Doctorfever, thank you for seeing me.

[Ozy_Flame]

Thanks for providing a link, Cliff. I think transit safety is an issue across all major cities in Canada, not just Toronto. I also think these polls can reflect perceptions with recency bias, such as when media covers high profile incidents, even when the vast majority of transit users are using public transit without issue.

In addition, simply throwing money at the problem is also not the answer. You have to look at other programs for transit safety that have worked well in other jurisdictions. The SCOPE program in Philadelphia has had excellent results, and for the record, it isn't just policing - it's access to social services and resources. And in LA, there is a similar program that has officers working with social workers and building trust with vulnerable members of the public.

Truth be told, with cash-strapped cities and the province downloading responsibilities to cities in recent years, the provincial governments are abdicating their responsibilities to help ensure safety on these transit systems. Small cuts - including service frequency and poor station design - can accentuate these problems.

With the recent announcement of funding for both Calgary and Edmonton in Monday's press conference (and small amounts at that), it would be better knowing what that funding is going towards. Because simply adding more cops isn't going to address the problem. It's going to push it around. And it just turns into this:

[undercoverbrother]

There is some serious kuntiness going on here.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

This seems unnecessarily antagonistic, sneering, and dismissive, Cliff. We need to stop pretending that Yoho is the only one doing this, the evidence is right here..

So I assume you’re not going to post evidence that I’ve made diatribes saying how great the Nazis were? Not surprising. Just keep playing your games.

It’s no secret that we don’t get along. And I occasionally let my dislike of you show.

But should we compare that with your behaviour and relationships with posters here over the years? The many, many times your posting privileges have been suspended for personal attacks. How by your own admission your inbox is full of angry PMs from people you have antagonized.

Do you know how many people have ever sent me angry PMs, in my 15+ years of posting on CP? One. And we both know who that was.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Slava

I have a daughter and I'm concerned about both. It doesn't seem like it's got to be one or the other?

The probability that my daughter has some issues on public transit that has severe negative effects on her life is significantly lower than the probability that a lack of access to health care services like abortion having a severe negative effect on her life. One threat is significantly worse than the other. I suppose you can be worried about both, similar to how I also want to make sure that my kids don’t get hit by lightning. But given that 25% of women have an abortion, I am quite certain that it is a much lower percentage of women that have problems with public transit or with getting hit by lightning.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

The probability that my daughter has some issues on public transit that has severe negative effects on her life is significantly lower than the probability that a lack of access to health care services like abortion having a severe negative effect on her life. One threat is significantly worse than the other. I suppose you can be worried about both, similar to how I also want to make sure that my kids don’t get hit by lightning. But given that 25% of women have an abortion, I am quite certain that it is a much lower percentage of women that have problems with public transit or with getting hit by lightning.

It's also worth mention that the vast majority of Canadians are not taking public transit, for better or for worse. I can't seem to nail down any one specific source, but some open data portals and websites are suggesting it's about 20% of the population uses public transit for ridership, and that's mostly in urban areas. In Ontario (2016), Toronto had the highest share of residents using public transit and active transportation to go to work at 31.0%, followed by Ottawa-Gatineau at 29.2% and Kingston at 16.3%. For Canada on the whole for work commuting, it was 12.4% across the country.

And for comparison, about 5% of Americans use public transit to commute to work (2019).

Personally I think public transit is the future and needs significant investment and infrastructure over the next 30 years. But for the vast majority of riders, they ride without incident (and by incident I mean confrontations or issues), even if there are ways to improve the experience.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

So I assume you’re not going to post evidence that I’ve made diatribes saying how great the Nazis were? Not surprising. Just keep playing your games.

It’s no secret that we don’t get along. And I occasionally let my dislike of you show.

But should we compare that with your behaviour and relationships with posters here over the years? The many, many times your posting privileges have been suspended for personal attacks. How by your own admission your inbox is full of angry PMs from people you have antagonized.

Do you know how many people have ever sent me angry PMs, in my 15+ years of posting on CP? One. And we both know who that was.

It’s true, I have been sin binned a record 700 times. Every message I get is from a mild mannered good person who has been pushed to the brink by my actions and words (I get 56 messages every day!). It was very angry of me to say I appreciated you and found you funny when you randomly DM’d me years ago to call me an unhappy person. I am sorry for the pain and hurt I have caused. I am learning. I am growing. I am reflecting.

With this now being all about me, I am confronted with the fact that it is I who is causing transit to be unsafe. I am Alberta politics, and for that, I am also sorry.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

The probability that my daughter has some issues on public transit that has severe negative effects on her life is significantly lower than the probability that a lack of access to health care services like abortion having a severe negative effect on her life. One threat is significantly worse than the other. I suppose you can be worried about both, similar to how I also want to make sure that my kids don’t get hit by lightning. But given that 25% of women have an abortion, I am quite certain that it is a much lower percentage of women that have problems with public transit or with getting hit by lightning.

I wish the people in power would make it law that all women in Canada could have access to abortions. They have the power to do that, don’t they?

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

I wish the people in power would make it law that all women in Canada could have access to abortions. They have the power to do that, don’t they?

Health care is provincial so yes, 10 provinces and 3 territories could make that law.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

The probability that my daughter has some issues on public transit that has severe negative effects on her life is significantly lower than the probability that a lack of access to health care services like abortion having a severe negative effect on her life. One threat is significantly worse than the other. I suppose you can be worried about both, similar to how I also want to make sure that my kids don’t get hit by lightning. But given that 25% of women have an abortion, I am quite certain that it is a much lower percentage of women that have problems with public transit or with getting hit by lightning.

Yeah, there are things that concern me more than either of those topics for my daughter. I just don't think that conflating the two serves any purpose here though. I can want people to feel safe and comfortable taking transit and also want women to have access to abortions. If my daughter were planning on taking the C-Train at midnight tonight though, I'd be picking her instead. Maybe I've let the bad guys win, or however you want to think of this, but it surely doesn't feel safe in my opinion. And I feel like that is disproportionately an issue for young women and women in general.

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

It's also worth mention that the vast majority of Canadians are not taking public transit, for better or for worse. I can't seem to nail down any one specific source, but some open data portals and websites are suggesting it's about 20% of the population uses public transit for ridership, and that's mostly in urban areas. In Ontario (2016), Toronto had the highest share of residents using public transit and active transportation to go to work at 31.0%, followed by Ottawa-Gatineau at 29.2% and Kingston at 16.3%. For Canada on the whole for work commuting, it was 12.4% across the country.

And for comparison, about 5% of Americans use public transit to commute to work (2019).

Personally I think public transit is the future and needs significant investment and infrastructure over the next 30 years. But for the vast majority of riders, they ride without incident (and by incident I mean confrontations or issues), even if there are ways to improve the experience.

The dirty truth is that people don't like transit. There are a lot of reasons for that, and a lot factors specific to each city. But, given the choice, people are happier to choosing other ways to commute despite the push for people to use mass transit. We've laid out environmental reasons, traffic and urban planning reasons and economic reasons that "we" should limit cars. People still choose these other methods though.

[Muta]

Public perception of transit is one thing, but as someone who works in the world designing and building this type of infrastructure, access is the big one - particularly in cold-climate cities like Calgary. If transit access isn't within a 0-3 minute walk from your house, many people aren't interested in taking it. It's why TOD (Transit-Oriented Development) planning is so important, and why I'm also a huge proponent of putting as much transit underground as possible - give people a comfortable and accessible experience, and they will make the effort (see the city of Sapporo for an example). With inflation and environmentally-conscious living becoming more important by the day, public transit will play a huge role in the development of sustainable cities going forward.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Slava

The dirty truth is that people don't like transit. There are a lot of reasons for that, and a lot factors specific to each city. But, given the choice, people are happier to choosing other ways to commute despite the push for people to use mass transit. We've laid out environmental reasons, traffic and urban planning reasons and economic reasons that "we" should limit cars. People still choose these other methods though.

I don't disagree. But that said, nothing is impossible here. The majority of people living in Tokyo are using mass transit - approximately 70-80% of Tokyo residents were estimated to use public transit for their daily commuting needs. Even during COVID measures it was still the biggest source of transit used. And in a recent survey, it was only edged out by Berlin and Copenhagen for public transit favorability.

Public transit must be designed in a way that people see it as critical. Continuously building infrastructure for cars doesn't cater to this; I'm even concerned about the adoption of EV's and how people are likely seeing it as carte blanche to be 'environmentally friendly' and yet these cars are heavier and create just as much infrastructure stress as ICE vehicles.

Public transit will never be the only answer. But it needs to occupy a huge place in societal transit needs with good design, frequency, timely delivery and efficiency, and safety. It needs to be part of a mix that includes micro-transit options, accessibility for non-vehicle trips, and better car usage management (e.g. tolls, carsharing, EV's, etc.)