American Politics 3.0 - Back to Brunch

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Coach

If I had been a Democrat in congress during the speaker vote, I would have traded any investigation/inquiry the Trumpers wanted to do for votes for Jefferies as speaker. What is there to lose? Have your investigations, if they come up empty they look foolish, if they come up with real issues, then impeach the dude, who cares?

Losing Biden as a candidate would, IMO, be the worst thing for Republicans. Democrats are begging for someone else to vote for.

Voter's paradox: Each side wants the other's frontrunner to be the nominee, and nobody wants another round of the last election.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Voter's paradox: Each side wants the other's frontrunner to be the nominee, and nobody wants another round of the last election.

Can speak for anyone else, but I definitely don’t want Trump as the nominee for the Republicans. I’m not that partisan. I’d rather there be a difficult choice between two decent candidates than a difficult choice between two crappy ones.

If the Presidential race was between Kinzinger and Booker at least you’d have some intelligent and respectful debate going on and some semblance of feeling that, at least if you lose, the country will still be in the hands of a sane and capable person. This is just going to be two old men shouting nonsense at each other. Even worse than it was 4 years ago. At least Biden could complete a sentence then.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Coach

Can speak for anyone else, but I definitely don’t want Trump as the nominee for the Republicans. I’m not that partisan. I’d rather there be a difficult choice between two decent candidates than a difficult choice between two crappy ones.

If the Presidential race was between Kinzinger and Booker at least you’d have some intelligent and respectful debate going on and some semblance of feeling that, at least if you lose, the country will still be in the hands of a sane and capable person. This is just going to be two old men shouting nonsense at each other. Even worse than it was 4 years ago. At least Biden could complete a sentence then.

There is no reason to believe that 50% of Republicans voters wouldn't vote for someone worse or more outrageous than Trump. There are a good chunk of Republican voters who would support a reasonable, intelligent candidate, but they aren't the majority and have no say in the primary process.

Democrats problem is finding someone who can win the mid-west labor vote, the black vote, suburban votes, and not have the progressives revolt.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Coach

Can speak for anyone else, but I definitely don’t want Trump as the nominee for the Republicans. I’m not that partisan. I’d rather there be a difficult choice between two decent candidates than a difficult choice between two crappy ones.

If the Presidential race was between Kinzinger and Booker at least you’d have some intelligent and respectful debate going on and some semblance of feeling that, at least if you lose, the country will still be in the hands of a sane and capable person. This is just going to be two old men shouting nonsense at each other. Even worse than it was 4 years ago. At least Biden could complete a sentence then.

I absolutely agree with this and I think anyone would be foolish not to.

Trump isn't really partisan, though. Certainly not in an ideological sense, or a loyalty sense either (refuses to sign the pledge). Biden can complete a sentence but the ones he messes up get all the news. Same as what they did to Bush. If Biden was 60 instead of 80, none of the concern would exist.

It's just kind of funny to me that this reality exists.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

There is no reason to believe that 50% of Republicans voters wouldn't vote for someone worse or more outrageous than Trump. There are a good chunk of Republican voters who would support a reasonable, intelligent candidate, but they aren't the majority and have no say in the primary process.

Democrats problem is finding someone who can win the mid-west labor vote, the black vote, suburban votes, and not have the progressives revolt.

Those are the same Republicans who nominated John McCain and Mitt Romney before Trump came down the escalator. Remember, Trump was polling in the 30s in his only competitive primary; the other 60-70% couldn't settle on one candidate.

And the progressives didn't revolt when everyone withdrew in 2020 to allow Joe Biden to beat Bernie Sanders.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by butterfly

I absolutely agree with this and I think anyone would be foolish not to.

Trump isn't really partisan, though. Certainly not in an ideological sense, or a loyalty sense either (refuses to sign the pledge). Biden can complete a sentence but the ones he messes up get all the news. Same as what they did to Bush. If Biden was 60 instead of 80, none of the concern would exist.

It's just kind of funny to me that this reality exists.

Lol. If this guy was 20 years younger, his age wouldn’t matter!

Yeah well, probably because he would be 20 years younger and coherent. It’s pretty rare I watch just sound bites. If the president is talking I’ll probably watch his whole remarks. Biden is tough to listen to. He mumbles through important points and looks as frail as paper compared to basically every other world leader (most of whom are 30 years his senior). If Biden really wanted what was best for the country he (and his whole generation of Peolosi and Schumer and Feinstein) would ride off into retirement and let people who are going to live in the world they are making take over. They seem to have this saviour complex that “only they” can do it. Like they’ve all been doing a bang up job for the past few decades. Why can’t they just step aside and support the next generation?

Sanders can stay. He has the vitality of a man 40 years younger. Although even he’s looking pretty rough these days.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Coach

Lol. If this guy was 20 years younger, his age wouldn’t matter!

Yeah well, probably because he would be 20 years younger and coherent. It’s pretty rare I watch just sound bites. If the president is talking I’ll probably watch his whole remarks. Biden is tough to listen to. He mumbles through important points and looks as frail as paper compared to basically every other world leader (most of whom are 30 years his senior). If Biden really wanted what was best for the country he (and his whole generation of Peolosi and Schumer and Feinstein) would ride off into retirement and let people who are going to live in the world they are making take over. They seem to have this saviour complex that “only they” can do it. Like they’ve all been doing a bang up job for the past few decades. Why can’t they just step aside and support the next generation?

Sanders can stay. He has the vitality of a man 40 years younger. Although even he’s looking pretty rough these days.

Yeah, well, it's tough. I'm not even sure that Biden wanted to run. He got in pretty late, then when Sanders started winning primary contests and leading in the polls, everyone else panicked and got out to prevent that faction from winning.

He hasn't been a bad president in my opinion. Has his appearance deteriorated from when he first ran, sure, but whose doesn't? It's not a job I'd want. I imagine if there was someone apparent that was ready to ascend to the nomination he'd step aside, but that person doesn't exist. It certainly isn't Cory Booker who attracted hardly anyone the last time out.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Those are the same Republicans who nominated John McCain and Mitt Romney before Trump came down the escalator. Remember, Trump was polling in the 30s in his only competitive primary; the other 60-70% couldn't settle on one candidate.

And the progressives didn't revolt when everyone withdrew in 2020 to allow Joe Biden to beat Bernie Sanders.

They aren't the same republicans. If you kill off Trump, an ever worse version would spawn in his place. Fighting wokeness and triggering libtards is what gets the majority of votes out. They give no thought of going with someone for electability, because the moderates will hold their noses and vote for them and were rewarded with a dream supreme court.

Progressives were ok with Joe. They weren't ok with Hilary (especially in the rust belt). They wouldn't be ok with someone like Pete, Klobachur or Whitmer. Newsom would be a wild card, but Trump would find him easy prey in the mid-west looking like a west coast elite, while he can promise all the factory jobs coming back.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Yeah, well, it's tough. I'm not even sure that Biden wanted to run. He got in pretty late, then when Sanders started winning primary contests and leading in the polls, everyone else panicked and got out to prevent that faction from winning.

He hasn't been a bad president in my opinion. Has his appearance deteriorated from when he first ran, sure, but whose doesn't? It's not a job I'd want. I imagine if there was someone apparent that was ready to ascend to the nomination he'd step aside, but that person doesn't exist. It certainly isn't Cory Booker who attracted hardly anyone the last time out.

I’m not saying Biden has been bad or that the job isn’t difficult and hard on those who take it up. No one has risen up because they have a defacto candidate. The DNC isn’t going to support someone going around running for president against their own incumbent. The only way they can have a new candidate is if they promote their good young leaders and have a real debate while Biden runs the country instead of campaigning, and puts his firm support behind the front runner.

Maybe it’s not Booker, I thinks he’s taken big strides since the last run. I like Jeffries. I still like Warren, despite her age. And I’m open to liking/learning about newcomers who I hadn’t thought of before. It’s a misnomer to think just because someone hasn’t seemed great in the past can’t get better, or that because we don’t know the field, the answer is the devil you know instead.

Come on Joe. Take the knee. Don’t you want to go sit in your Delaware house and watch the grass grow or something?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Yoho

https://twitter.com/user/status/1701619657264988571

Republicans should have some plans to make life better for the American people. But no. They're going to spend the next several months, collecting evidence, one that they’ve been doing for the last nine months and haven’t come up with anything.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Yeah, well, it's tough. I'm not even sure that Biden wanted to run. He got in pretty late, then when Sanders started winning primary contests and leading in the polls, everyone else panicked and got out to prevent that faction from winning.

He hasn't been a bad president in my opinion. Has his appearance deteriorated from when he first ran, sure, but whose doesn't? It's not a job I'd want. I imagine if there was someone apparent that was ready to ascend to the nomination he'd step aside, but that person doesn't exist. It certainly isn't Cory Booker who attracted hardly anyone the last time out.

Gavin Newsome desperately wants to be president. You can tell from his interviews. However, he's a team player and he won't throw his hat in unless Biden steps aside.

And let's get real. Biden is a career politician. He wants to stay in the job as long as possible. It's in his nature. He believes he can do the job best, otherwise he wouldn't have run in the first place.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

They aren't the same republicans. If you kill off Trump, an ever worse version would spawn in his place. Fighting wokeness and triggering libtards is what gets the majority of votes out. They give no thought of going with someone for electability, because the moderates will hold their noses and vote for them and were rewarded with a dream supreme court.

Progressives were ok with Joe. They weren't ok with Hilary (especially in the rust belt). They wouldn't be ok with someone like Pete, Klobachur or Whitmer. Newsom would be a wild card, but Trump would find him easy prey in the mid-west looking like a west coast elite, while he can promise all the factory jobs coming back.

They didn't just fall out of the sky. A lot of the same people who supported those two also supported Trump.

Admittedly, this was before the "election stealing" and when Trump seemed pretty forthright, so his popularity among Republican primary voters today may support your point.

Trump will either win this time or be "too old" next time, so we'll see who takes his place. I'm not sure he should be so confident in places like PA/MI/WI this time since a lot has happened since 2016, and those three should be enough for the Democrats to win.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Gavin Newsome desperately wants to be president. You can tell from his interviews. However, he's a team player and he won't throw his hat in unless Biden steps aside.

And let's get real. Biden is a career politician. He wants to stay in the job as long as possible. It's in his nature. He believes he can do the job best, otherwise he wouldn't have run in the first place.

Yes, but to echo what nfotiu said earlier, I'm not sure how that would play in the Midwest against Trump in 2024 compared to Biden's "Scranton, Pennsylvania" story.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Yes, but to echo what nfotiu said earlier, I'm not sure how that would play in the Midwest against Trump in 2024 compared to Biden's "Scranton, Pennsylvania" story.

Let it play out!

I think Newsome has some red flags for a lot of Americans because of COVID restrictions in California, but other than that, he's done the closest job to being president as possible: Governing 39 million people in a diverse state with an even more diverse and enormous economy.

Tell me who is more qualified on the current political landscape. I'll listen to any arguments.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Let it play out!

I think Newsome has some red flags for a lot of Americans because of COVID restrictions in California, but other than that, he's done the closest job to being president as possible: Governing 39 million people in a diverse state with an even more diverse and enormous economy.

Tell me who is more qualified on the current political landscape. I'll listen to any arguments.

That accomplishment accurately describes Gray Davis, Jerry Brown and Arnold Schwarzenegger. And I say that as someone who voted against recalling Gavin Newsom in the election.

The presidential election depends on very few states: PA, GA, MI, WI, AZ, NV, and one congressional district in each of ME and NE. Maybe NH and NC if you stretch your imagination. Any generic Democrat or Republican is going to win the rest of them very predictably. Is Newsom going to play in these states?

And, no, I don't think there isn't anyone better for the Dems right now, which is likely why Biden stayed in.

[2Stonedbirds]

Originally Posted by butterfly

I absolutely agree with this and I think anyone would be foolish not to.

Trump isn't really partisan, though. Certainly not in an ideological sense, or a loyalty sense either (refuses to sign the pledge). Biden can complete a sentence but the ones he messes up get all the news. Same as what they did to Bush. If Biden was 60 instead of 80, none of the concern would exist.

It's just kind of funny to me that this reality exists.

I think the difference is, Bush said stupid #### because he's a stupid ####.

Biden says stupid #### because of his cognitive decline. When Biden was 60 he was a much clearer communicator, and didn't do stuff like walk out of Medal of Honor ceremonies.

He belongs in a old folks home, not the White House.

[Ozy_Flame]

Has Mitch McConnell and Dianne Feinstein left yet?

Seems to be a culture of geriatrics who don't know when to leave (and some who want back in because of megalomania).

Looks like Washington has thinking to do. In both sides.

[The Fonz]

Is there a realistic way for American's to get traction on an age limit for government? It's a major problem on both sides of the isle.

You'd think it should be easy enough to institute a 'can not run for public office if =>75 years old' rule. This still wouldn't go as far as what most people want, but it'd be effective none the less (Trump will be 78 in 2024, Biden was 78 in 2020, McConnell was 80 in 2022, etc).

[timun]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Is there a realistic way for American's to get traction on an age limit for government? It's a major problem on both sides of the isle.

Aisle.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by timun

Aisle.

What if you're from Nantucket?