Calgary cops suspended after arrest video released

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Antithesis

And besides - if questioned about who to trust - or who is in the right - in a situation where there is a police officer and a guy in handcuffs ... I will almost always side with the police officer. The fact that this guy didn't file a complaint himself is very telling ... it suggests he either acknowledges the situation is his fault or that he was guilty.

Hey, I agree it wasn't that serious and the CPS have a tough go and are doing a pretty good job [maybe one of the best forces, in my limited experience] but all professions need a watchdog to improve their quality.

As for this guy not filing a complaint, I'd think it would suggest [without a video] that he knows it would be filed in the waste basket and if he is a crook from some where else he's probably suffered far worse.

[Ford Prefect]

I think what Chief Beaton has done is the apppriate way to handle this incident. There are obvious grounds to suggest inappropriate conduct by the two officers, but context is everything and we don't know what the context in this case is. So, suspend them with pay (like everyone else, they're innocent until proven guilty) and call for an inquiry. Failure to hold an inquiry would be very bad optics, and cause a lot of damage to the CPS's reputation. I have faith the inquiry will prove their guilt or innocence.

Regarding the discussion in this thread about whether cops are good guys or bad guys. Obviously both ... most of them are good guys though I think. I've seen some atrocious things being done by Calgary cops over the years. I once say two rather large officers beating up a drunk native woman. I have no doubt she did something to get in trouble, but did it really require two burly cops using rather excessive physical force to subsudue an impaired native woman? No weapon was evident. On the other hand, I have two friends who are police officers. These guys are among the finest people I know, and I fear for their safety due to the nature of their work. Do they have the right to use force, perhaps more force than required, to control a situation and subdue someone? For their own safety's sake I hope so. I don't want them be killed or injured. Even in the case of the impaired native woman ... it appeared to be a case of excessive, needless force to me. But I gotta admit, I don't know what all the details involved were.

[FireFly]

Tonight on my way to the movies, I saw a cop trying to take a man down who was resisting arrest. You could tell that this incident weighed heavily on his mind, for he really struggled to avoid using force, and in the end, had to call back up to ensure he didn't need to. Chances are, was this not right downtown with a whole bunch of onlookers watching from the C-Train platform, the cop would have given the guy a punch to the head and had him down and cuffed in moments. But because everyone is now keeping an eye on them, the cop knew he had to be careful. It shouldn't take 3 or 4 police officers to take down one drunk and disorderly... (not that I know that's what he was being arrested for, but the guy was obviously drunk.) Now, to ensure no 'undue' force is used, we're likely to have more situations like this one, where cops are forced to call in back-up just to surround a guy and ensure he cooperates. Sad that cops can't do their jobs. Guy totally deserved a punch to the head.

[metallicat]

I think if it came down to it though, a cop is going to choose to go home at the end of the night at all costs, than worry about some BS complaint from a drunk, who as you say, probably deserved more than he got.

[urban1]

So where do you draw the line? Is it OK for cops to give slaps to the head? Is a light punch OK? How about hands on the throat?

Originally Posted by Antithesis

All that being said, I think this is much ado about nothing. The video iteself says that the guy wasn't hurt ... he got slapped across the back of the head, pushed to the ground, and got a knee to the back - certainly not the knee drop from the top rope that some people are trying to make this out to be.

You ever think that the guy didnt complain because no one would listen? Whos he going to complain to? Other cops?
Even after this video is out, who is investigating the situation? Other cops from the CPS. That gives me a lot of confidence these cops will probably get an award from their brothers.

Originally Posted by Antithesis

And besides - if questioned about who to trust - or who is in the right - in a situation where there is a police officer and a guy in handcuffs ... I will almost always side with the police officer. The fact that this guy didn't file a complaint himself is very telling ... it suggests he either acknowledges the situation is his fault or that he was guilty.

Originally Posted by urban1

So where do you draw the line? Is it OK for cops to give slaps to the head? Is a light punch OK? How about hands on the throat?




You ever think that the guy didnt complain because no one would listen? Whos he going to complain to? Other cops?
Even after this video is out, who is investigating the situation? Other cops from the CPS. That gives me a lot of confidence these cops will probably get an award from their brothers.

Urban,

I respect your opinion. However, police are intensely trained. Not only to use force but use it appropriately. Police must constantly judge what kind of force they are permitted to use, recognizing that the level can be adjusted in a split second. Can an officer use strikes to subdue all types of resistance? No. They are trained to use different techniques based on the level of resistance. 'Hands to the throat' is considered lethal force, thus it can only be used if lethal force or greivous bodily harm was being used against the officer or a member of the public.

CPS internal investigation are extremely thorough. There is a process in place to handle police complaints and it is indeed unbaised. Further, any investigation that the complainant is unhappy with can be taken to the Police Commision for a further review. There are checks and balances in the works that you should read up on.

http://content.calgary.ca/CCA/City+H...ompliments.htm
Further, there are some good powerpoint presentations done by the police commision reviewing the complaint process. Just google, 'calgary police service complaint process'

[Antithesis]

Originally Posted by urban1

So where do you draw the line? Is it OK for cops to give slaps to the head? Is a light punch OK? How about hands on the throat?




You ever think that the guy didnt complain because no one would listen? Whos he going to complain to? Other cops?
Even after this video is out, who is investigating the situation? Other cops from the CPS. That gives me a lot of confidence these cops will probably get an award from their brothers.

It all depends on the situation - and as I've said repeatedly, in this situation, #1 - I don't think the police did anything untoward and #2 - I do not think you or I are in any position to judge their actions since (I would assume) neither of our jobs put our lives in danger on a daily basis.

Follow the link Wookie gave you. I think it's far more likely that the person involved in this video did not think it was worthwhile to complain because he either knew he was in the wrong or he WAS doing something illegal at the time ... rather than some big conspiracy.

[transplant99]

So where do you draw the line? Is it OK for cops to give slaps to the head? Is a light punch OK? How about hands on the throat?

All are OK and in line as long as the individual has been informed he is under arrest. If you try and resist, then yes you will have these and much worse actions taken against you.

Like it or not, when a cop says you are under arrest, you are under arrest and must go through the motions to exonerate yourself. Fighting back is not an option...period.

[ikaris]

You know what is happening to the CPS? Not too long ago one cop allegedly is buying guns and selling them in the gun amnesty scandal. Now cops on videotape using excessive force.

I don't think all police officers are bad, but situations like these definitely cause me to lose confidence in the system.