Dallas moved up from 8th to 3rd in the draft lottery - they never really "bottomed out". Complete luck (which we haven't had) and great drafting changed the direction of that franchise.
Hard for us to be lucky when we keep trading away 1st round picks.
They drafted Stamkos and Hedman 2008-2009 and 5-6 years later they were in the cup finals.
since they drafted those two they've made the playoffs 10 of 14 years. They made 4 trips to the finals, won two cups.
No one is suggesting you draft 1stOA and then go on to win a cup in two years, what we are saying is good teams, that are consistently in the championship picture have drafted well. A part of drafting well is picking consistently in the top 10 for a few years. Hell that's how the Flames were good for the bit that they were. Monahan and Tkachuk were a huge part of this teams success, but that era is over.
You said "multiple times". I guess two is a multiple, but it's not much of one. And now you are moving the bar to "top 10"?
TB drafted well, but mostly outside of the top 10. Mostly outside of the first round to be honest.
You said "multiple times". I guess two is a multiple, but it's not much of one. And now you are moving the bar to "top 10"?
TB drafted well, but mostly outside of the top 10. Mostly outside of the first round to be honest.
You do the research. In the last 20 years, There are only two teams who have won a cup without a top 5 pick and that is just a technicality because Eichel was on Vegas, and Yzerman player for Detroit, but I thought it would be disingenuous to include him.
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Again, drafting in the top 5 does not guarantee success look at Buffalo. Still, the teams that do well in the playoffs have key players that they picked up in the top 5 picks, with exception to Boston and Vegas who are difficult franchises to emulate.
You do the research. In the last 20 years, There are only two teams who have won a cup without a top 5 pick and that is just a technicality because Eichel was on Vegas, and Yzerman player for Detroit, but I thought it would be disingenuous to include him.
Good thing we have Huberdeau then.
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If Huberdeau can return to a career average then ya, good thing. If the Flames get lucky and a few of their prospects become big game players. If the Flames goal tending improves. Lots of ifs.
If the Flames are going to be good, a lot of things need to go right. Almost to many it feels to me. This team had a shot at a natural rebuild, but we are putting it off. Time will tell if that gets us a trip to the second round let alone the playoffs.
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If Kadri or Huberdeau play up to their contract value for any stretch of time, then that changes the state of the team in a big way.
Most of us are operating on the assumption that they'll continue to underperform and the Flames will need to find solutions elsewhere while still paying them to lace up for them.
What if they start being who we brought them in to be?
Both players have to feel embarrassed, and hopefully galvanized by their fall from grace and what the media and pundits are saying about them.
You said "multiple times". I guess two is a multiple, but it's not much of one. And now you are moving the bar to "top 10"?
TB drafted well, but mostly outside of the top 10. Mostly outside of the first round to be honest.
One franchise player is a hell of a foundation. Double that and you've a couple of amazing pillars to build around. Yeah, they surrounded them even further with other great picks, but it doesn't mean they didn't start with great building blocks, which they got thanks to very high draft selections. You aren't providing any evidence that those picks aren't needed.
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I don't know about other teams. But for the Flames, the current "make the playoffs" plan didn't bring the Cup last 30 years. So why not try rebuild by tanking for high draft picks once? Especially the team is not attractive for the superstars to come and play for.
Yeah the make the playoffs mantra seems a bit off when you consider the Flames have a dismal history of getting past the first round over the past 20 years.
If Edwards was that concerned with playoff revenue you'd think he'd take a few steps back to take a giant leap (potentially) forward. Dare I say, multiple years of going past round 1.
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I don't know about other teams. But for the Flames, the current "make the playoffs" plan didn't bring the Cup last 30 years. So why not try rebuild by tanking for high draft picks once? Especially the team is not attractive for the superstars to come and play for.
Because ownership wants playoff revenue each year and is too shortsighted to see skipping a year might mean longer runs other multiple years.
Most people on here agree with your strategy but until we actually see Flames ownership & management execute a rebuild it seems like their mandate is keep on keepin' on.
You do the research. In the last 20 years, There are only two teams who have won a cup without a top 5 pick and that is just a technicality because Eichel was on Vegas, and Yzerman player for Detroit, but I thought it would be disingenuous to include him.
Ninety percent of Cup winners have top-3 picks.
Ninety percent of all teams have top-3 picks.
It doesn't alter the odds.
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If the Flames are going to be good, a lot of things need to go right. Almost to many it feels to me.
Why is that the viewpoint, though? Solely using last year as the baseline is a poor way to evaluate what this team and it's individuals are capable of.
Huberdeau having a significantly better season should absolutely be the expectation.
Markstrom having a significantly better season should absolutely be the expectation.
Kadri having a better overall season should absolutely be the expectation
Mangiapane scoring more goals should be the expectation.
Weegar performing as he did in the second half should be the expectation.
The young kids vastly outperforming the likes of Lucic, Lewis, and the Ritchie brothers should be the expectation.
Oliver Kylington being a large upgrade on Stone/Stetcher/Mackey should be the expectation.
I don't think any of those projections should be viewed as wishful thinking or bias based on recent history and performances. We know what these players are capable of.. and we didn't see that last season.
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Maybe you're right, I was doing a little digging and the only two franchises to never pick inside the top three are Vegas and Calgary which is funny because
The last team to win a cup without a homegrown top three pick was Vegas last year, before that it was the 1989 Flames.
Why is that the viewpoint, though? Solely using last year as the baseline is a poor way to evaluate what this team and it's individuals are capable of.
Huberdeau having a significantly better season should absolutely be the expectation.
Markstrom having a significantly better season should absolutely be the expectation.
Kadri having a better overall season should absolutely be the expectation
Mangiapane scoring more goals should be the expectation.
Weegar performing as he did in the second half should be the expectation.
The young kids vastly outperforming the likes of Lucic, Lewis, and the Ritchie brothers should be the expectation.
Oliver Kylington being a large upgrade on Stone/Stetcher/Mackey should be the expectation.
I don't think any of those projections should be viewed as wishful thinking or bias based on recent history and performances. We know what these players are capable of.. and we didn't see that last season.
First I want to say that I love the Flames and will cheer for them through thick and thin. Hell I have started multiple eternal playoff optimism threads. That said, when was the last time the Flames did better than expected. 2015 and before that 2004? It's been an ugly 34 years. That's why I am skeptical.
First I want to say that I love the Flames and will cheer for them through thick and thin. Hell I have started multiple eternal playoff optimism threads. That said, when was the last time the Flames did better than expected. 2015 and before that 2004? It's been an ugly 34 years. That's why I am skeptical.
Maybe you're right, I was doing a little digging and the only two franchises to never pick inside the top three are Vegas and Calgary which is funny because
The last team to win a cup without a homegrown top three pick was Vegas last year, before that it was the 1989 Flames.
That said, I still maintain that drafting and developing top picks is the best way to build championship contenders.
It can be misleading to say that top 3 picks mean success. It really depends on how you get them and other circumstances. Having top 3 picks that you draft living up to their pedigree is the key. You can take advantage of their ELCs under the cap, work them into the core and get them building chemistry for longer as they continue to develop.
It's a completely different thing to acquire players who were top 3 picks when you have to also sacrifice other assets to get them, overpay them , and when they are typically available because they haven't lived up to their pedigree.
It's easy to say that 90% of teams have players picked with top 3 picks, but the circumstances matter. THG had a video recently about whether it helps teams to bottom out and rebuild if they want to compete. He's not an expert, more of a super fan, but he collected the information and came to the conclusion that while not 100% fool proof, it usually helps more than it hurts for teams to bottom out and get those high homegrown picks.
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