2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Just to expand the flames have one of the worst playoff series win percentages in the NHL. They've only won .375% good for 27th in the NHL.

There is only one team that is newer than the Flames who have lost more playoff series.

https://records.nhl.com/standings/playoff-standings

Sure 11 teams have not won the cup, but 8 of those franchises didn't even exist when the Flames won last.

The Flames peers are franchises like Washington, Buffalo, Vancouver and Arizona.

I feel like the franchise most similar to the Flames is the Wild.

* Every season a couple pundits pick them as a dark horse.
* Usually in the playoff mix as a bubble team.
* Every 2-3 seasons have a strong regular-season and look like they’ve turned the corner.
* Always fizzle out in the playoffs.
* Never finish at the bottom of the standings.
* Never draft franchise players with top picks.

[Paulie Walnuts]

As fans you could feel the tension and toxic environment last season with Darryl. As players it was probably 1000X worse being in that locker room.

You can't fault some of them like Lindholm being a bit anxious before signing a 8 year contract.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I feel like the franchise most similar to the Flames is the Wild.

* Every season a couple pundits pick them as a dark horse.
* Usually in the playoff mix as a bubble team.
* Every 2-3 seasons have a strong regular-season and look like they’ve turned the corner.
* Always fizzle out in the playoffs.
* Never finish at the bottom of the standings.
* Never draft franchise players with top picks.

Yup, I’d say we really compare to Philly if you ask me.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I agree, but I don't think he is running out of time until the trade deadline, he is ok to be patient until then.

This is accurate, but perhaps impractical. You can't trade 6 players at the deadline. Even if they narrow that down the chance of making a hockey trade goes down the closer you get to the deadline.

Finally, this team should be reasonably competitive as constructed. You and I may be fine with trading away the top line C and a top pairing D at the deadline when in a playoff position, but it is unlikely the casual fan, front office, and remaining players are okay with that. The latter group isn't discussed enough. Trading away your top players for prospects and picks while in a playoff spot is a sure fire way to tarnish your reputation with the players.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I guess I'm in the minority but I think you could get a lot of good pieces by trading Lindholm and Hanifin for futures.

I also don't agree with the thought process that "this team can't rebuild because it has no prospects". Well, that's exactly why I would rebuild, otherwise you find yourself in a worse position than the Flames in 2013 when they sold Iginla and Bouwmeester far later than they should have. The only real difference makers/prospects that came out of the organization during that era were Gaudreau and Backlund - not nearly enough to bring this team over the top after we added Monahan/Tkachuk/the rest of the core.

This is definitely a team that has structured its contracts for the short-term. But again, you can't let the mistakes of the past dictate further miscues for the future. It sucks that Huberdeau and Kadri are on the books for 8/6 more seasons, but those costs are sunk.

If the Flames truly believe they are a contender, by all means make these next moves like they believe it. But I don't even think the Flames organization believes that. They think if they get into the playoffs, there is a chance for another 2004 run. That's how this organization has been run for 20 years.

The challenge of starting a rebuild with a mediocre prospect pool is it extends the time for the rebuild and takes away the faces that sell tickets.

The challenge with having long term expensive veteran contracts while doing a rebuild is it creates a toxic development environment and keeps you too competitive to draft high. Plus, few ownership groups are willing to spend 250 million dollars on long term veteran contracts while losing most nights.

Technically you could, but I think nearly every front office would continue to try and be competitive in thst situation. If the Flames fall on their face for a couple of seasons maybe that changes. You and I may call that being perpetually mediocre, but that is just another way of saying perpetually competitive.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I have zero desire to see Lindholm remain a Flame. Dude wants to see how it goes, and I want to see a player plant a flag in the ground and say "I'm a Calgary Flame - I'll help it go the right way" (mostly I just don't want the Flames to give him an 8 year extension because of his age/performance).

I 100% understand it from his perspective, but the Flames should be looking for a more decisive commitment when they're talking about an 8 year contract extension.

I don't blame Lindholm. Based on all reports, there's been a huge amount of disorder in the locker room for a while. Initially, it was Tkachuk vs. the old guard. Then it was the team vs the coach. It sounds like the organization hasn't been a fun place to be for a while. It's a mess.

Lindholm has a year left on his existing contract. He has every right to see how things go before making a commitment for the rest of his career.

[Nelson]

I will be pretty shocked if Lindholm signs. If I were him, I’d be trying to go to a Stanley Cup contender or a team I thought was on its way to contending. The Flames are neither. I am not looking forward to cheering for this team.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I have zero desire to see Lindholm remain a Flame. Dude wants to see how it goes, and I want to see a player plant a flag in the ground and say "I'm a Calgary Flame - I'll help it go the right way" (mostly I just don't want the Flames to give him an 8 year extension because of his age/performance).

I 100% understand it from his perspective, but the Flames should be looking for a more decisive commitment when they're talking about an 8 year contract extension.

Further to that, wait ~3 months to make a decision that will presumably dictate your fate for 8 years? It’s not like this is a young roster. How this team looks in December could be promising, but that has no bearing on how they look moving forward. I’m not sure I’m buying whatever it is he’s waiting for.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by kehatch

This is accurate, but perhaps impractical. You can't trade 6 players at the deadline. Even if they narrow that down the chance of making a hockey trade goes down the closer you get to the deadline.

Finally, this team should be reasonably competitive as constructed. You and I may be fine with trading away the top line C and a top pairing D at the deadline when in a playoff position, but it is unlikely the casual fan, front office, and remaining players are okay with that. The latter group isn't discussed enough. Trading away your top players for prospects and picks while in a playoff spot is a sure fire way to tarnish your reputation with the players.

You make a good point. Having a fire sale and tanking at the deadline is bad for team morale. But I don't think the Flames are going to sell 6 players. Only three players need to be traded: Hanifin, Buckland, and Tanev.
This is just the cost of doing business. Unless the Flames get on some crazy run.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Yup, I’d say we really compare to Philly if you ask me.

Philly has had way more Playoff success than us

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Further to that, wait ~3 months to make a decision that will presumably dictate your fate for 8 years? It’s not like this is a young roster. How this team looks in December could be promising, but that has no bearing on how they look moving forward. I’m not sure I’m buying whatever it is he’s waiting for.

Agreed. The waiting to see the culture stuff is overblown I think, the Flames literally just canned the GM and coach and he already knows the new guys stepping into those roles, and is well aware of the long term contracts on the team. Now maybe he wants to go if Hanafin and Backlund get traded and he's not impressed with the return or direction? Possibly.

There is also a risk for Lindholm that the Flames aren't good this season, his numbers fall as a result, and the contract leverage he could have next summer drops as well. The Flames offer now could be the highest he'll ever see in his career. If I had to guess right now I think he does sign before game 1, I don't think it makes sense for either party to draw it out into the season.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Philly has had way more Playoff success than us

Over what time frame?

[genetic_phreek]

I'm in the minority but not only do I want this to happen but I really believe if we traded Lindholm and Hanifin for prospect and futures, we'll be better setup for the future. I also don't think we'll be bad at all, if anything we could still be better. We still have a lot of good pieces. Dube only had 19 points less than Lindholm and that deficit can be made up with Huberdeau alone having a better season than last. If Sharangovich pops like the Flames are hoping, Markstrom and Mangi having a bounce back, Pelletier and Coronato getting freedom to play the energy game, add in Kylington with that hunger and being reinvigorated. New coach, new system, new vibes.

Huby - Dube - Pelletier
Mangi - Kadri - Sharangovich
Coleman - Backlund - Coronato
Zary - Ruzicka - Duehr

Kylington - Raz
Zadorov - Weegar
Solovyov - Tanev

Markstrom

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Over what time frame?

They were better than us in the 70's. Not even close.

[Nelson]

Let’s do 2000 and later. Flyers: 13 playoff series won. Flames: 6 playoff series won. So, a little more than double the success.

Let’s do 1989 and later. Flyers: 19 playoff series won. Flames: 6 playoff series won.

So. Depressing.

Knowing that, the Flames cannot keep doing what they’ve always done and say they intend to compete for a Stanley Cup.

I would like to see the team draft lots and draft well over a sustained period of time. Let’s see some patience. No more going for it every year by throwing draft picks away at the deadline for veteran depth to help the team make the playoffs or go on a run. No more short-circuiting team building by trading away multiple high draft picks for veterans.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

I'm in the minority but not only do I want this to happen but I really believe if we traded Lindholm and Hanifin for prospect and futures, we'll be better setup for the future. I also don't think we'll be bad at all, if anything we could still be better. We still have a lot of good pieces. Dube only had 19 points less than Lindholm and that deficit can be made up with Huberdeau alone having a better season than last. If Sharangovich pops like the Flames are hoping, Markstrom and Mangi having a bounce back, Pelletier and Coronato getting freedom to play the energy game, add in Kylington with that hunger and being reinvigorated. New coach, new system, new vibes.

Huby - Dube - Pelletier
Mangi - Kadri - Sharangovich
Coleman - Backlund - Coronato
Zary - Ruzicka - Duehr

Kylington - Raz
Zadorov - Weegar
Solovyov - Tanev

Markstrom

That's not a good roster up front. The D and G is fine, but forward is a mess.

On wing your short RH shots, size, goal scoring, and your asking too much from rookies. Huberdeau is the only winger with the skill set to drive a line offensively and he is on a line with two middle six wingers, one trying to play C and neither goal scorers.

Dube isn't a top line C. In addition to shacking that line, this impacts the other lines that need to take on additional defensive shifts. This hurts the Kadri line in particular.

The Flames are in an interesting spot. For the first time in a very long time they don't have a single bad player at any position. Their problem is that they have a shortage of great players and the players they do have don't fit together as well as they should. If you delete two of their great players it's going to have an impact.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

I'm in the minority but not only do I want this to happen but I really believe if we traded Lindholm and Hanifin for prospect and futures, we'll be better setup for the future.

Those trades were simply not available this offseason.

The general lack of cap space for contending teams made cap for picks basically impossible.

Taylor Hall was worth nothing on the open market.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Nelson

Let’s do 2000 and later. Flyers: 13 playoff series won. Flames: 6 playoff series won. So, a little more than double the success.

Let’s do 1989 and later. Flyers: 19 playoff series won. Flames: 6 playoff series won.

So. Depressing.

Knowing that, the Flames cannot keep doing what they’ve always done and say they intend to compete for a Stanley Cup.

I would like to see the team draft lots and draft well over a sustained period of time. Let’s see some patience. No more going for it every year by throwing draft picks away at the deadline for veteran depth to help the team make the playoffs or go on a run. No more short-circuiting team building by trading away multiple high draft picks for veterans.

If we do 1989 and later would it not be 10 series wins for Calgary? Also Flames 1 cup to Flyers 0? Or did you mean to say 1990 and later? If you include 89 you include the cup

[Flames1217]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Those trades were simply not available this offseason.

The general lack of cap space for contending teams made cap for picks basically impossible.

Taylor Hall was worth nothing on the open market.

To be fair Taylor Hall is injury prone, had a bad season last year and has two seasons remaining at 6 million.

I could see why a lot of teams weren't interested in Hall this off-season.

Our players are cheaper, younger and equally or more productive. Don't think the Hall return factors much into either Hanifin or Lindholm's value.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Flames1217

To be fair Taylor Hall is injury prone, had a bad season last year and has two seasons remaining at 6 million.

I could see why a lot of teams weren't interested in Hall this off-season.

Our players are cheaper, younger and equally or more productive. Don't think the Hall return factors much into either Hanifin or Lindholm's value.

I don’t know. You had Hall go for free, 50% retained Johansson go for free, other insiders commenting on how they couldn’t believe how many players were available for basically nothing.

What blockbuster trade happened this offseason that makes you believe our players value has not been affected? I think the rumors of lowball offers is entirely true.