Random Thought Thread v2

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Wormius

To be fair, I don’t think you can just use the excuse of, “well people do worse things” to justify questionable behaviour. I’d just opt to not get a pet. Go visit a dog park or a dog cafe, if those exist, or Petland.

I'm not using that comparison to justify anything I am doing. I'm perfectly comfortable with debarking a dog and don't need to justify it at all. I think it's fine and I wish everyone would do it.

I'm using it to point out how hilariously hypocritical and ridiculous MoneyGuy is being when he's feigning outrage at my plans.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Well if you're crying for a dog I assume it's because you don't want an animal to suffer. I would consider the suffering quite minimal and temporary in exchange for the chance of a long happy life - a life that doesn't involve annoying the fk out of my family and all my neighbours' families. I wish everyone would debark their dogs. I hate listening to those little fkers barking in neighbourhoods, camping, etc. It's the trashiest noise.

So anyway, if you're going to worry about that I'm just surprised you're not worrying about all the more important suffering going on out there to which YOU are directly responsible if you're a meat eater. Have you ever been on a kill floor? I have. It's pretty crazy. And have you ever seen how chickens are transported to kill facilities? I have. They're allowed a certain number of DOAs enroute, BTW. So these chickens either die from being too hot or of hypothermia or of suffocation while sandwhiched in god-awful crates stacked one on top of another soaked in their own excrement. Terrified the whole time, btw.

The dog my wife is considering getting will face one millionth of the suffering YOU are complicit in putting animals through every single time you put meat in your mouth, so yeah, pipe down unless you're a vegan.

Do we have to be vegan? I'm all for complicit suffering of cheese and eggs.

[Fuzz]

Can't dogs just be trained not to bark? Like, I'd think if you got a puppy and even paid loads of money for training it would still be cheaper than surgery. Bonus is the dog would also be trained for all sorts of other things at the same time, I suspect. Do we have "puppy training camps" where you can just pay $2000 for someone to do the hard work for you? I'd be for making it a requirement of dog ownership, since most owners have zero training or control over their dog(excusing the dog owners on this forum, of course).

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I'm not using that comparison to justify anything I am doing. I'm perfectly comfortable with debarking a dog and don't need to justify it at all. I think it's fine and I wish everyone would do it.

I'm using it to point out how hilariously hypocritical and ridiculous MoneyGuy is being when he's feigning outrage at my plans.

Unless you plan on travelling to have it done you're out of luck.

A New Era for Veterinary Medicine in Alberta
On February 24, 2019, the Alberta Veterinary Medical Association’s membership gathered at our Annual General Meeting to vote on a series of resolutions, including banning Alberta’s veterinarians from performing procedures deemed medically unnecessary by our profession. The ban—of which a strong majority of members voted in favour—include the following procedures:

ear cropping
tail docking
tail nicking
tail blocking
partial digit amputation (declawing or onychectomy)
tendonectomy
front dewclaw removal
cosmetic dentistry
body piercing
tattooing that is not for the purpose of registration and identification
devocalization
The decision to include these particular procedures was based on the best available research informing a growing demand by our profession to act in the best interests of animals and the public.

https://www.albertaanimalhealthsourc...ary-procedures

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Can't dogs just be trained not to bark? Like, I'd think if you got a puppy and even paid loads of money for training it would still be cheaper than surgery. Bonus is the dog would also be trained for all sorts of other things at the same time, I suspect. Do we have "puppy training camps" where you can just pay $2000 for someone to do the hard work for you? I'd be for making it a requirement of dog ownership, since most owners have zero training or control over their dog(excusing the dog owners on this forum, of course).

I'm not sure about training out all barking, but there are fairly easy but time consuming ways to train dogs out of barking at common times (seeing other dogs through a fence, doorbells). Karen Pryor is a great resource and learning tool for dog owners. It's too bad all owners aren't forced to take at least a basic course on dog training.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Well if you're crying for a dog I assume it's because you don't want an animal to suffer. I would consider the suffering quite minimal and temporary in exchange for the chance of a long happy life - a life that doesn't involve annoying the fk out of my family and all my neighbours' families. I wish everyone would debark their dogs. I hate listening to those little fkers barking in neighbourhoods, camping, etc. It's the trashiest noise.

So anyway, if you're going to worry about that I'm just surprised you're not worrying about all the more important suffering going on out there to which YOU are directly responsible if you're a meat eater. Have you ever been on a kill floor? I have. It's pretty crazy. And have you ever seen how chickens are transported to kill facilities? I have. They're allowed a certain number of DOAs enroute, BTW. So these chickens either die from being too hot or of hypothermia or of suffocation while sandwhiched in god-awful crates stacked one on top of another soaked in their own excrement. Terrified the whole time, btw.

The dog my wife is considering getting will face one millionth of the suffering YOU are complicit in putting animals through every single time you put meat in your mouth, so yeah, pipe down unless you're a vegan.

While I agree that industrial abattoirs are awful places, your comparison is not equivalent.

for chickens the choice is being eaten alive or killed in a factory.

for a dog it is an abusive surgery vs not an abusive surgery.


As a stock famer I will tell you that I do everything in my power to minimize harm and trauma to any animal bread for the killing floor until it is show time. I would love an option to sell my goats for meat to a mom and pop butcher, but unfortunately in Alberta the only licensed slaughter houses are huge or not commercially viable.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Can't dogs just be trained not to bark? Like, I'd think if you got a puppy and even paid loads of money for training it would still be cheaper than surgery. Bonus is the dog would also be trained for all sorts of other things at the same time, I suspect. Do we have "puppy training camps" where you can just pay $2000 for someone to do the hard work for you? I'd be for making it a requirement of dog ownership, since most owners have zero training or control over their dog(excusing the dog owners on this forum, of course).

We did puppy training classes when we got our dog and, as we are first-time dog owners I think it was really beneficial.

Unfortunately, his tendency to bark came later.

We've tried lots of things, including bark collars, and the bark collar works, when he's wearing it he knows not to bark. But you cant keep it on all the time.

[MoneyGuy]

That vets have banned those surgeries tells you all you need to know, but go ahead and offer a vet money under the table and risk his/her license.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Locke

We did puppy training classes when we got our dog and, as we are first-time dog owners I think it was really beneficial.

Unfortunately, his tendency to bark came later.

We've tried lots of things, including bark collars, and the bark collar works, when he's wearing it he knows not to bark. But you cant keep it on all the time.

Are you saying he got older and learned a new trick?

[Slava]

Is it necessary to pay a vet under the table though? There are youtube videos that teach you everything these days!

[Sliver]

Dang, missed the boat by four years. Oh well, fk that...no way I'm inviting a bark machine into my house. That'll be that.

And yeah, training is insane to me. I won't devote one single second of my life to training a dog...that sounds like hell.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Slava

Is it necessary to pay a vet under the table though? There are youtube videos that teach you everything these days!

Maybe knut can do it. Vocal cords can't be that different from eyeballs.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Dang, missed the boat by four years. Oh well, fk that...no way I'm inviting a bark machine into my house. That'll be that.

And yeah, training is insane to me. I won't devote one single second of my life to training a dog...that sounds like hell.

Well ya, but if you were going to pay a vet for surgery, couldn't you pay someone to train it?

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Well ya, but if you were going to pay a vet for surgery, couldn't you pay someone to train it?

Well I did want to do that, anyway, since I want it trained to go outside to use the bathroom.

Only issue with this breed is the barking is an actual problem and it sounds like you have to stay on it, so you're always kind of managing it. I don't mind a shock collar, but then you have to charge the shock collar and sort of handle that. Was hoping for just a silent little rascal running around and snuggling me when I watch TV or whatever.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Well ya, but if you were going to pay a vet for surgery, couldn't you pay someone to train it?

Sliver seems to be making it a “him” problem when he’s not the one that really wants the dog in the first place. Why wouldn’t he simply delegate that responsibility to those that want to bring it into the household?

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Sliver seems to be making it a “him” problem when he’s not the one that really wants the dog in the first place. Why wouldn’t he simply delegate that responsibility to those that want to bring it into the household?

Meh, it's what I do. Letting this thing into the house is entirely contingent upon sorting out the barking issue before we get it. I'd be kind of an a-hole to my wife to completely wash my hands of this, so I'm pitching in.

[you&me]

What about a vibrating bark collar?

My understanding is the vibrations cause no pain or suffering to the dog and they're quite effective.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Maybe knut can do it. Vocal cords can't be that different from eyeballs.

Well he wouldn't put his vet license at risk, so I can't see why not?!

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Yeah and get this: I saw a bear on a hike last Wednesday and I kept going on the hike. Weird how people can evolve and change over a decade and a half, eh? Or should I have just stagnated and stayed exactly the same as who I was when I was 30 even though I'm 46 now?

You made that thread like this year or last year.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Dang, missed the boat by four years. Oh well, fk that...no way I'm inviting a bark machine into my house. That'll be that.

And yeah, training is insane to me. I won't devote one single second of my life to training a dog...that sounds like hell.

Different strokes and all, but building a relationship with a creature that loves you every second of its life is a strange conception of Hell.