2023 Toronto Blue Jays Season Thread

[Roof-Daddy]

Sooo, everybody ready to watch the Jays crap the bed against "weaker" competition now that their schedule turns butter soft?

What a frustrating team to follow.

One of the best pitching and defensive teams in the league
Can actually hit and get base runners a plenty
Can't hit with RISP to save their lives
3-10 vs. the Orioles
Vladdy has turned into a replacement level 1st baseman, WTF?!

If this team gets into the playoffs it'll be some sort of miracle at this point. The Mariners are so hot right now, the Astros are the Astros....so I guess we just have to hope the Rangers continue to self destruct?

[Roof-Daddy]

3 vs CLE
3 vs WSH
3 @ COL
3 @ OAK
3 vs KCR

Really need a minimum of 10 wins out of 15.
12 out of 15 would be much better

[KelVarnsen]

I don't know if want them to make the playoffs. I want changes. Playoffs might mean changes don't happen.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

I don't know if want them to make the playoffs. I want changes. Playoffs might mean changes don't happen.

What an odd take from a fan.

Playoffs might mean they win a world series. This franchise didn't make the playoffs for over 20 years at one point. If you get a chance to be one of the few teams left going for it, you should want that chance. It can be very rare.

This team is sooo good too, they have strong starting pitching, and a very good and deep bullpen.

They also have amazing defense. They've given up the fewest runs in MLB this season I think.

As far as the offense goes, who honestly believed that Vlad, Kirk, Springer and Varsho would fall this far below their offensive projections? Even Chapman has been ass since his hot two months to start the season.

They also seem to get guys on base just fine, just can't seem to figure #### out with RISP.

[KelVarnsen]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

What an odd take from a fan.

Playoffs might mean they win a world series. This franchise didn't make the playoffs for over 20 years at one point. If you get a chance to be one of the few teams left going for it, you should want that chance. It can be very rare.

This team is sooo good too, they have strong starting pitching, and a very good and deep bullpen.

They also have amazing defense. They've given up the fewest runs in MLB this season I think.

As far as the offense goes, who honestly believed that Vlad, Kirk, Springer and Varsho would fall this far below their offensive projections? Even Chapman has been ass since his hot two months to start the season.

They also seem to get guys on base just fine, just can't seem to figure #### out with RISP.

I don't see them winning in the playoffs.

They have the pitching but the offense is god awful. You can't rely on pitching alone. We've seen that throughout the season.

They have no plan at the plate. They look lost more times than not. They just plain suck at the hitting part of the game. Yes a lot of players have been poor like Vladdy and Kirk that we didn't see happening but I want changes. If the Jays make the playoffs these changes I want probably don't happen.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

I don't see them winning in the playoffs.

They have the pitching but the offense is god awful. You can't rely on pitching alone. We've seen that throughout the season.

They have no plan at the plate. They look lost more times than not. They just plain suck at the hitting part of the game. Yes a lot of players have been poor like Vladdy and Kirk that we didn't see happening but I want changes. If the Jays make the playoffs these changes I want probably don't happen.

Fair enough, but if they squeak into the playoffs they play Minnesota in round one. I think they win that series. The next rounds would be way tougher (Baltimore would be the likely opponent for round 2...) but if the pitching/defence stays the way it is and one or two hitters got hot they could do some serious damage.

I get wanting change, but this seems like a legit window, and they have multiple stars on team control contracts right now - I'd rather not see them blow that just to get a new hitting coach/manager.

I might just be nostalgic - my baseball loving boy is ~ the same age now as I was the last time they won, and those early '90s teams winning are a core memory for me. If Vladdy could pull a Joe Carter style move all is forgiven, and I'd rather hope for that.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

If it's a choice between playoffs or no playoffs you take playoffs all day long.

There's going to be changes if they make the playoffs or not anyways. Might as well watch some playoff games and have something to cheer for. The pitching is great, if the bats ever wake up they could be a very dangerous team.

[flamingred89]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

3 vs CLE
3 vs WSH
3 @ COL
3 @ OAK
3 vs KCR

Really need a minimum of 10 wins out of 15.
12 out of 15 would be much better

100%. 12-3 would be ideal.

The Jays are fortunate that the Astor's, Rangers, and Mariners all play each other a ton down the stretch so all 3 aren't going to win every night. They just need to string some W's together and we'll see a few games of October ball.

[KelVarnsen]

It's August 25th. We've seen enough games now to know the offense won't wake up.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

It's August 25th. We've seen enough games now to know the offense won't wake up.

Things is you just need 2 guys to have a Chapman April streak , and Bo and Merrifield to just do what they have done

You get 2 guys hot like that in playoffs and all of a sudden your winning

Look at Seattle and J-Rod carrying them for a few weeks . All of a sudden Seattle has an offence. Or Houston when Tucker was hot

Vlad getting hot for 1 fricken month would really solve a lot of problems

[Parallex]

Regardless I hope the roster goes back to having thumpers. The emphasis this year on pitching and defense ain't for me. I mean... ideally you get all three but the sleepy bats make me a sad panda more then having suboptimal D.

[Jiri Hrdina]

What type of changes are you hoping for such that you are rooting for them NOT to make the playoffs?

[KelVarnsen]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

What type of changes are you hoping for such that you are rooting for them NOT to make the playoffs?

Atkins gone. Schneider gone. Guillermo Martínez fired into the sun for starters. Vladdy traded.

Atkins has made some god awful trades and hasn't done anything with the minor league system.

Schneider is a joke. He mismanages all the time.

Martínez should have been fired months ago.

Vladdy isn't going to be a superstar. He is pretty average now. Lets get something for him.

--

I want the Jays to win but I find this version of them very unlikeable. I said it during the Jose ceremony. The 2015 team wanted to win and played like it. I don't get that from the 2023 team. It feels like they are just out there to play and get it over with.

[Roof-Daddy]

For anyone wondering, Lourdes Gurriel has been total ass in the second half and now has a 104 wRC+ with 1.3 fWAR

Varsho has 1.6 fWAR despite his massive struggles at the plate. He's provided a ton of defensive value plus he's under control still.

Moreno has 0.9 fWAR and wouldn't have been an improvement on Kirk or Jansen who have 1.0 fWAR and 1.5 fWAR respectively.

So anyone thinking that trade was a loss needs to rethink things.

[Roof-Daddy]

Also, Atkins has now built a strong starting staff and a pretty wicked bullpen with tons of depth and some intriguing bullpen arms now in the upper minors. And imagine how much better the rotation would be if Manoah hadn't ballooned up in the off season and actually met projections this season, that is on Manoah and not Atkins.

He's also built a strong defensive team and the team is very good at run prevention, just like he said he wanted.

The weakest part of team is the offense, but that's primarily with RISP. Sure, many thought the offense would take a hit after losing Teo and LGJ, but did we really think that Vladdy would be a crappy barely above average bat? Or that we'd be in late August and the Jays wouldn't have a single batter with 20 home runs yet? Or that Vlad, Springer, Kirk and Varsho would all #### the bed offensively the same season?

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

For anyone wondering, Lourdes Gurriel has been total ass in the second half and now has a 104 wRC+ with 1.3 fWAR

Varsho has 1.6 fWAR despite his massive struggles at the plate. He's provided a ton of defensive value plus he's under control still.

Moreno has 0.9 fWAR and wouldn't have been an improvement on Kirk or Jansen who have 1.0 fWAR and 1.5 fWAR respectively.

So anyone thinking that trade was a loss needs to rethink things.

I don’t think it’s that it’s a loss this year based on total performance - The Jays actually have done a really good job identifying guys in the minors in their system who were “overrated” and dealing them

But it’s the return we should have expected for the #2 prospect in baseball that is the problem . Varsho was suppose to be a .250 hitter with between 25-30 HRs in Rogers and with the shift banned

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Also, Atkins has now built a strong starting staff and a pretty wicked bullpen with tons of depth and some intriguing bullpen arms now in the upper minors. And imagine how much better the rotation would be if Manoah hadn't ballooned up in the off season and actually met projections this season, that is on Manoah and not Atkins.

He's also built a strong defensive team and the team is very good at run prevention, just like he said he wanted.

The weakest part of team is the offense, but that's primarily with RISP. Sure, many thought the offense would take a hit after losing Teo and LGJ, but did we really think that Vladdy would be a crappy barely above average bat? Or that we'd be in late August and the Jays wouldn't have a single batter with 20 home runs yet? Or that Vlad, Springer, Kirk and Varsho would all #### the bed offensively the same season?

Atkins’s has been masterful at UFA signings . Best in league without a doubt

Trading has not been good, maybe average , and we have one of the bottom farm systems

But we’re into year 4 of contending and if we miss the playoffs that will be zero playoff wins , a bad farm system and a top 10 payroll

[Cali Panthers Fan]

This is still a very good team, and one that is primed to do damage in the playoffs because it's built on pitching and defense, not whackadoodle power. Guess what always gets neutralized in the playoffs...power bats.

I guess I don't know what any of you really expect. Baseball is a hard sport to predict and even harder to maintain regular success, yet this team has been in the mix for the last few years despite a lot of turnover to the starting staff and every day fielders. Nothing is a guarantee for success. You can find all the superstars you want and put them all together, but winning takes more than pure talent. Just look at San Diego. They have a solid to good rotation, an all-star middle of the lineup with some decent supporting players, and yet they can't get a sniff of the playoffs right now. Yet the Reds are knocking on the playoff door despite a roster very much in flux from an older core to a bunch of young prospects without any elite pitching to back it up.

Just be happy they're in the mix despite the fact the offense hasn't been there this year. I'd rather watch a team that wins a lot of nights with great pitching and defense than whatever the Jays were with guys like Tanner Roark or Trent Thornton pitching.

[flamingred89]

Forgot to look what the o/u was for this game. Couldn't have been more than 4.5 though. Might be a snoozer.

[Hockey]

3-1 now. Guess I can watch football now