Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Whynotnow]

Shocking news that they’ve completely bungled this renewables file now, and for those saying the NDP scares investors away what does do to the corporations who had projects in the pipeline?

Aside from picking a fight with the feds to show the transition isn’t possible by stumping an industry that was doing quite nicely I just can’t see what problem they are solving for here. Relcamation status has to be the biggest farce ever - this government keeps trying to give money to oil and gas producers to clean up their mess and not once have the ever considered a moratorium to get that situation resolved.

Grid stability? Absolutely needs to be dealt with but the 6 month moratorium does nothing for that and AESO should be directed to work on it.

The irony here is she has likely just pissed off some big companies on this one who had projects at various stages.

And people complain about an NDP royalty review……

[Yoho]

I like it, she’s not just blindly following the Feds.

They don’t want to negotiate or compromise why should she.?

The collateral damage is what is is, she’s fighting for her constituents best intrests.

There is common ground to be had, but neither side seems ready to budge.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1691193017464668160

[Azure]

Problem is I think she could fight for the province and the future of fossil fuels without compromising renewable energy.

But, she's hedging her bet, and likely counting on the Liberals getting kicked out which will likely lead to the carbon tax being repealed (hopefully), and all this insanity about restricting natural gas getting thrown to the wayside.

[Ozy_Flame]

The first part of your post contradicted the second part of your post.

Either they're both stubborn, or neither are stubborn. You can't have your Danielle cake and eat it too.

Pick a lane, yo-yo.

[Monahammer]

I feel like we're just a year behind the UK political cycle more than anything. This is our Liz Truss equivalent, lasting potentially as long as a cabbage (last longer than lettuce and more ukrainian for us AB folk), so next i anticipate that we will get Kaycee Madu as premier somehow.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

There are legitimate concerns that too much solar might result in the sun burning out or too many wind turbines could use all the wind. This must be looked into.

I thanked this, but I actually wanted to reply and tell you how much this made me LOL in real life.

[indes]

I know quite a few O+G producers have been building renewable projects to get carbon credits and meet their carbon output goals.

I wonder if this will have a spill over effect and end up slowing down O+G construction by adding costs onto and/or limiting their production capacity.

[BlackArcher101]

Originally Posted by indes

I know quite a few O+G producers have been building renewable projects to get carbon credits and meet their carbon output goals.

I wonder if this will have a spill over effect and end up slowing down O+G construction by adding costs onto and/or limiting their production capacity.

It certainly adds an absolute crap-ton of uncertainty. I can't imagine how easy it will be to green light any project now.

[Tron_fdc]

I'm trying to understand what her point is here. I actually doubt even SHE knows what she's saying.

The "peak" gas plants that come online when prices are high are a reactionary power source that runs when the free market price hits high levels. In a deregulated market with demand spikes, it's going to happen. Again, this is a market KLEIN built. So look in the mirror before you start blaming the feds, Danielle. These peak plants pillage Albertans when the market doesn't work (you know, the whole supply and demand thing).

Her solution here is to pause renewable development though? Because more power production would smooth out the giant peaks these plants take advantage of. They (renewables) also run cheaper, seeing as most (all?) are heavily financed so they are likely all under contract for their generation supply at a fixed (low) rate. The peak plants ONLY come online when prices are high. That's why they are gas; you can bring a gas turbine on in minutes.

Is she worried renewables aren't reliable enough to cover the demand loads?

Renewables account for approx 10-15% of generation....it's a lot, but it's not like we are going to lose 50% of our capacity here if the wind doesn't blow across Alberta, the sun doesn't shine like Mordor, and there's suddenly massive demand for electricity. IMO I would be surprised to see Alberta lose half their renewable capacity all at once, which would account for MAYBE 10% of our actual generation capacity. At this point, I would push for legislation that allows to run the peak plants as long as they are needed at a fixed rate, and import from BC hydro to make up the remaining load requirements. BC Hydro is tied into the USA as well (or was, I haven't looked lately) so they can handle this.

I'm on the fence with BC hydro though. The last time Alberta did that, BC Hydro closed their dams and IMPORTED from Alberta at night when the prices were low, then opened the dams up during the day to sell power when prices spiked. It cost Alberta billions of dollars until we figured it out.

Seems to me she just wants to allow the peak plants to run anytime they want? I would actually argue they shouldn't be allowed in the first place, because they act like drug dealers in a crack den. Why is the government fighting for the right to get ripped off by them?


Edit here though: I need to REALLY read into the legislation before I can comment on it fully. The electricity market is impossibly confusing for the layman.

[Monahammer]

Well, Dow was going to announce FID for a new $10 billion + plant in North Saskatchewan in October, primarily based on a net zero ethylene cracker.

https://investors.dow.com/en/news/ne...x/default.aspx

[QUOTE] Today, Dow is among the top 20 global corporations for clean energy purchases, with more than 850 MW. [\QUOTE]

I personally suspect that this will be jeopardized by the moratorium. They want decarbonized power, obviously. I would bet the announcement is at a minimum delayed until clarity is given on timelines for new approvals.

Titanically stupid.

[belsarius]

Honestly this just looks like industry backdoor lobbying in action and the government doing standard government double speak to confuse us laymen.

The case pointed out earlier with the Utilities commission is a good starting point as it ruled against O&G. Strong UCP donors will make up a large proportion of that, so they wouldn't want that to happen again. And then, the peak power generators are looking at losing a lot of their cash cow during peak times if the grid gets more normalized, so they won't want that.

So the Premier has one lobby fighting for it's rights over renewables and losing profit, the other lobby is looking at losing its cash cow to renewables, and both lobby's are most certainly the top backers of the UCP.

So all I expect out of her mouth is more deflections, rambling and inconsistencies, but this is how "democracy" works, everyone votes but only those with the most money actually win.

[Monahammer]

Then, there's Shell's recent plans in the region:
https://www.shell.ca/en_ca/media/new...n-alberta.html

All based around decarbonization to make this a "global Chemicals park" (1 of five sites in the world.) There were rumors that they were looking to announce something else publicly in september but no more. They have a proposal for a massive solar farm adjacent to that facility (and already operate a small one.)

So, I suppose you could say that petrochemical operations at least are TOTALLY RELIANT on new sources of renewable energy (or at least decarbonized, but the only immediate source here in ab is renewable) to build new operations or even continue operating existing facilities.

[Yoho]

A lot on the line, sure hope the Feds take that into consideration.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Yoho

A lot on the line, sure hope the Feds take that into consideration.

What the hell do the Feds have to do with a moratorium on renewable projects in Alberta?

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Then, there's Shell's recent plans in the region:
https://www.shell.ca/en_ca/media/new...n-alberta.html

All based around decarbonization to make this a "global Chemicals park" (1 of five sites in the world.) There were rumors that they were looking to announce something else publicly in september but no more. They have a proposal for a massive solar farm adjacent to that facility (and already operate a small one.)

So, I suppose you could say that petrochemical operations at least are TOTALLY RELIANT on new sources of renewable energy (or at least decarbonized, but the only immediate source here in ab is renewable) to build new operations or even continue operating existing facilities.

Shell's solar project with Silicon Ranch for the 58 MW of solar generation is already approved by the AUC.

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by belsarius

What the hell do the Feds have to do with a moratorium on renewable projects in Alberta?

Yoho in a GIF:

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by belsarius

What the hell do the Feds have to do with a moratorium on renewable projects in Alberta?

I think the Premier laid out the reasons for it pretty clearly.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by belsarius

What the hell do the Feds have to do with a moratorium on renewable projects in Alberta?

To spite the feds the Alberta government will make it harder to do business in Alberta.

That’ll show ‘em!

[Wormius]

Evidently she didn’t, because it’s not very clear.

[Tron_fdc]

OK, this is kinda funny. The proposed federal legislation:

- allows for peak gas plants to run whenever they are needed without penalty
- doesn't apply to existing gas generation
- Anything commissioned (approved?) between now and 2025 has TWENTY YEARS to comply
- allocates 40 billion over the next 10 years in clean energy programs/grants to provinces to help hit it (Alberta would likely receive a lot of this, seeing as the Alberta grid is only 13% renewables)

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/can...ease-1.6932332

As far as I can tell there's nothing in here that's anything more than political theater. No wonder the feds are ignoring the shrieks of Smith. They know their legislation is largely toothless, and all she's doing is whining about it to her base.

Quelle suprise.