[Rumour] Coyotes owner put in letter of intent to buy 41 acres of land in Mesa, Arizona

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Yes, of course football is different.

The point about mass transit is that Phoenix is a very spread out city. So, for example, is Houston. And those cities are in the bottom of NBA attendance and I suspect getting to the game is an issue.

What would make more sense is for owners in the few NBA/NHL cities that don't have shared arenas to give their heads a bit of a shake and quit being obstinate. There's money to be made and money to be saved by sharing.

Well you brought up football for some reason.

Houston is in the bottom of NBA attendance currently because of the Rockets. Check the standings. Minute Maid Park is down the street and has excellent attendance.

Lots of spread out US cities, especially west of the Mississippi. I think we’re losing the plot here.

[Jordan!]

Just an example from someone who works downtown Phoenix and lives in Gilbert.. going to any weekend Dbacks game or Suns game just kind of sucks and back in the day with Glendale it was 100x suckier.

Being central to the East Valley is ideal not central to Phoenix itself for Most hockey fans.

It works for the Dbacks and Suns because baseball and basketball fans are just spread out almost equally but hockey fans are 75% East of Scottsdale Rd I would estimate based on what I've seen and heard.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Jordan!

You have zero clue about the demographics and location of the valley

I'm not one to defend the resident cooler sipping Johnny-come-lately, but Jordan! is right on the money here. The demographics and locations for potential Coyotes arenas in Phoenix are really beyond this forum. People think Scottsdale is the location to build around, but Scottsdale isn't even the most affluent municipality in the Valley of the Sun anymore. Scottsdale doesn't even have ordinances that allow for a large-scale arena without burying most of it.

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Nah I think it's a fair comment, the goal posts always move.

No, I just don't think people understand the dynamics of politics in Phoenix. People seem to forget that the original stadium and arena were supposed to be in Mesa, on the same plot of land that the current Cubs' spring training facility is located. This all got sewered by a City council that was more concerned about appealing to the Mormon church than the grand benefit of the citizens of the city. A single political decision, based on liquor licenses for those facilities and how that would conflict with Mormon ideals, allowed Glendale to swoop in and make a sweetheart deal that would lead us down this path. Goal posts never moved, someone just stepped in and intercepted a pass that was never should have been thrown.

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Is that near the car racing track?

Not even remotely close. That would be like asking if Airdrie was close to the Saddledome.

A development in Mesa would be a great move for all parties. It's central to the money and the fan base. It's where it should have been years ago.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by getbak

There are 10 NHL teams that share a building with an NBA team (* = both teams have the same owner):

1. Boston
2. Chicago
3. Colorado *
4. Dallas
5. Detroit
6. Los Angeles
7. NY Rangers *
8. Philadelphia
9. Toronto *
10. Washington *

The Pistons & Red Wings and Raptors & Leafs had previously played in separate arenas.

Lol at the Raptors and Leafs playing in separate "arenas", they never did. The Raptors played in a baseball stadium (Skydome) because they knew Air Canada centre was coming. If the Leafs had a modern NHL arena built anytime in the last decades the Raptors would have played there.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by getbak

If Vegas gets an NBA expansion team, they will likely play in their own arena. If Seattle gets an NBA expansion team, they will likely play in the same arena as the Kraken.

Wait, is it confirmed that a new arena will be built in Vegas if they get an expansion NBA team? That seems absolutely insane to me. How does that even happen in a city that just had a world class arena built?

But I guess nothing in that damn country should shock me. Who gives a **** about the citizens and their needs, it's all about the bright lights, sports and fun!!!

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Wait, is it confirmed that a new arena will be built in Vegas if they get an expansion NBA team? That seems absolutely insane to me. How does that even happen in a city that just had a world class arena built?

But I guess nothing in that damn country should shock me. Who gives a **** about the citizens and their needs, it's all about the bright lights, sports and fun!!!

Bad example. Vegas was founded on bright lights and fun. Sports just came 70 years later.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Lol at the Raptors and Leafs playing in separate "arenas", they never did. The Raptors played in a baseball stadium (Skydome) because they knew Air Canada centre was coming. If the Leafs had a modern NHL arena built anytime in the last decades the Raptors would have played there.

I thought I had changed that from "arena" to "building" for that very reason, but it doesn't really change the point of the post.


The Raptors played at SkyDome because the Leafs were mad that the NBA awarded the franchise to a different ownership group and refused to let them play at the Gardens (although, they did eventually relent and the Raptors played a few games at the Gardens over their first few years, as well as few at Copps Coliseum).

For a time, it looked like both teams might build new downtown arenas, and the Leafs threatened to build theirs right beside the ACC. Eventually, the Raptors owner sold the team and the under-construction arena to the Leafs. Revisions were made to the design to accommodate Hockey and the ACC was has been both teams' home ever since it opened.

Originally Posted by jayswin

Wait, is it confirmed that a new arena will be built in Vegas if they get an expansion NBA team? That seems absolutely insane to me. How does that even happen in a city that just had a world class arena built?

But I guess nothing in that damn country should shock me. Who gives a **** about the citizens and their needs, it's all about the bright lights, sports and fun!!!

Nothing is certain until it happens, but Oak View Group (the group that built the arenas on Long Island and Seattle) has announced a plan to build a new arena for an NBA team south of the Strip: https://www.reviewjournal.com/busine...-team-2794857/

These sorts of things get announced all the time and nothing ever comes from them, but this has a better chance of happening just because OVG is involved and I don't think they have any presence in Vegas right now and would like to get their piece of that pie.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Not even remotely close. That would be like asking if Airdrie was close to the Saddledome.

A development in Mesa would be a great move for all parties. It's central to the money and the fan base. It's where it should have been years ago.

Yes I know, that's why I asked, I assume the site is west of the Mesa Country Club then?

here

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by getbak

For a time, it looked like both teams might build new downtown arenas, and the Leafs threatened to build theirs right beside the ACC.

Most expensive Spite Store ever!

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Yes I know, that's why I asked, I assume the site is west of the Mesa Country Club then?

here

Yup, that's the spot. Should have good access in having two off ramps from 202 and be close to the confluence of 101/202 and also close enough to US60 to take pressure off as well. I actually like this better than the original proposal of where the Cubs spring training facility is because of better road infrastructure. Coyotes are actually doing something right!

BTW, cool link to the google map. Didn't know how to do that!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Yup, that's the spot. Should have good access in having two off ramps from 202 and be close to the confluence of 101/202 and also close enough to US60 to take pressure off as well. I actually like this better than the original proposal of where the Cubs spring training facility is because of better road infrastructure. Coyotes are actually doing something right!

BTW, cool link to the google map. Didn't know how to do that!

Yeah, it’s a good location, as close to the middle of greater Phoenix as you could reasonably do. And the intersection of 101/202 is important.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Location matters when hockey isn’t the primary sport in AZ.

[FlamesAddiction]

I have always said that the Phoenix could be a good market and understand why the NHL has been so patient with it, but it does seem like it has been over estimated to this point. I get that location matters, but I doubt they would have tried Glendale and Scottsdale if they also didn’t think at one point that those locations would work. Those locations came with great optimism at one time, only to fail. I can see why people are a little jaded at this point to think Mesa or Tempe will be any different. It’s not my money, so I don’t give a crap what they do. I hope it works out for them, but until it does, I am not counting chickens.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I have always said that the Phoenix could be a good market and understand why the NHL has been so patient with it, but it does seem like it has been over estimated to this point. I get that location matters, but I doubt they would have tried Glendale and Scottsdale if they also didn’t think at one point that those locations would work. Those locations came with great optimism at one time, only to fail. I can see why people are a little jaded at this point to think Mesa or Tempe will be any different. It’s not my money, so I don’t give a crap what they do. I hope it works out for them, but until it does, I am not counting chickens.

Glendale was a real-estate scam from the beginning. I’ve posted about this before. Ellman & company intended to use the Coyotes as the loss-leader anchor tenant for a shiny new arena surrounded by an entertainment district, after which they would keep the valuable real estate for themselves and sell the hockey team to a sucker. As it turned out, Ellman himself was the sucker. The real estate never became that valuable and both sides of the deal went bust.

As for Scottsdale, you can't say that failed, because the owner was never allowed to build there. It simply hasn't been tried and isn't going to be.

[Strange Brew]

I believe Phoenix works as a market but without high quality ownership and a team friendly arena situation, it really doesn’t matter.

[jayswin]

Yeah, give Phoenix a Vegas or Seattle expansion situation if they had never existed in the NHL prior and they'd explode in the same way those cities have, imo.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Yeah, it’s a good location, as close to the middle of greater Phoenix as you could reasonably do. And the intersection of 101/202 is important.

I think the biggest plus would be the 10 or so minutes from the state university.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

I think the biggest plus would be the 10 or so minutes from the state university.

Also not far from the casino, airport, and the southeastern part of Scottsdale.

Greater Phoenix is sort of shaped like an 8 but tilted. And this location is near the centre of that 8.

[Strange Brew]

It’s a little early to get too hot and bothered about this piece of land.

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

It’s a little early to get too hot and bothered about this piece of land.

100% - plus there will be other LOI's going on.