[News] QMJHL bans fighting

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere, but this is fairly significant news, I thought. Behind a paywall here.

Automatic ejection for fighting, automatic one-match suspension for instigator, two for aggressor.

Long overdue.

I grew up in Halifax, and I recall once going to a Mooseheads training camp scrimmage in Cole Harbour. I believe Tanguay was on that team, or had been the year before.

There were probably ten fights, minimum. Blood all over the ice. I’d never seen anything like it, and not in a good way.

You want to pay a guy league minimum, or even several million, to punch/get punched, that’s one thing (and a longer, separate post).

Sending somebody’s 15-18 year old kid to Nowheresville New Brunswick to get punched in the face for free is not okay.

[Whynotnow]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I added a bit more to my post. I'm support this but the refereeing has to be better. They can't just let stuff go. There's no fighting in basketball and football because the refs actually call fouls, the players feel protected.

In hockey, in order for this to work, once the whistle blows everything has to stop. No fighting after clean hits, no bumping goalies, no pushing and shoving, no facewashes etc... You can't continuously punch Sedin in the face (as much fun as that was_

Right? In football, a receiver absolutely gets smoked by a hit to the head. The refs call a foul and eject the player. No fight happens, the players trust the process.

I think this is an excellent point, and fans and coaches will go crazy over it, but it needs to happen. Very first thing to eliminate right now is fighting after a hit, if you go and jump a player after they have delivered a hit to your teammate, toss em and suspend em. It’s the dumbest thing left in the game right now and needs to stop now and is easy to do.

[GioforPM]

The only downside to this move (which I agree with) is the lack of experience Q players will have in defending themselves if and when they turn pro. Which is a very minor point.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I added a bit more to my post. I'm support this but the refereeing has to be better. They can't just let stuff go. There's no fighting in basketball and football because the refs actually call fouls, the players feel protected.

In hockey, in order for this to work, once the whistle blows everything has to stop. No fighting after clean hits, no bumping goalies, no pushing and shoving, no facewashes etc... You can't continuously punch Sedin in the face (as much fun as that was_

Right? In football, a receiver absolutely gets smoked by a hit to the head. The refs call a foul and eject the player. No fight happens, the players trust the process.

First, you don't think pests exist in other contact sports, of course they do.
Scrums don't happen in other sports? Of course they do.
What about women's hockey, or International hockey? No fighting in that, but there are still scrums and bumping goalies etc. Why can they make it work? Is the reffing in women's hockey or the world championships better than the NHL? If so, why aren't we hiring them?

As for pests, is what they are doing illegal or against the rules?
Do you want to change the rules so bumping goalies and shoving after a whistle are penalties, and are those really the things that cause fights?
Honestly, how often does a guy like Marchand fight?
That's what makes pests so effective and annoying to play against. They aren't getting away with anything, because what they are doing isn't against the rules, or isn't bad enough to rise to being a penalty.

Almost the only time we see fights these days is after big clean hits, or staged fights, both of which I'd say most people think are stupid.
Heck your example about a receiver getting laid out with a hit to the head doesn't even hold up.
In the NHL you head shot a guy, and you're out of the game, but often you have to punch/get punched in the face by some other guy first.

The only barrier to taking fights out of hockey are the people who can't really see that the only purpose of keeping fights, is keeping fights.
There is nothing special about hockey that makes fighting a requirement

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

First, you don't think pests exist in other contact sports, of course they do.
Scrums don't happen in other sports? Of course they do.
What about women's hockey, or International hockey? No fighting in that, but there are still scrums and bumping goalies etc. Why can they make it work? Is the reffing in women's hockey or the world championships better than the NHL? If so, why aren't we hiring them?

As for pests, is what they are doing illegal or against the rules?
Do you want to change the rules so bumping goalies and shoving after a whistle are penalties, and are those really the things that cause fights?
Honestly, how often does a guy like Marchand fight?
That's what makes pests so effective and annoying to play against. They aren't getting away with anything, because what they are doing isn't against the rules, or isn't bad enough to rise to being a penalty.

Almost the only time we see fights these days is after big clean hits, or staged fights, both of which I'd say most people think are stupid.
Heck your example about a receiver getting laid out with a hit to the head doesn't even hold up.
In the NHL you head shot a guy, and you're out of the game, but often you have to punch/get punched in the face by some other guy first.

The only barrier to taking fights out of hockey are the people who can't really see that the only purpose of keeping fights, is keeping fights.
There is nothing special about hockey that makes fighting a requirement

There kinda is - in hockey, they have weapons.

If a guy is slashing, cross checking, whatever - do you want the other guy to swing his stick at him or his fist?

There’s too many little hacks and slashes throughout a game of hockey to call
All of them. And that builds up. There’s millions of dollars and years of fame and glory on the line. These are high stakes hockey games.

“Just don’t do it”, “wait for the ref to make a call” - okay. Easy to say when you’re not getting slashed.

And while fights gone wrong are terrible to see, I don’t think even the Burtuzzi incident was more disturbing than Alexander Perezhogin nearly murdering that dude in the goal crease.

Players like it. Fans like it in the right contexts.

Account for it, at the pro level.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

There kinda is - in hockey, they have weapons.

If a guy is slashing, cross checking, whatever - do you want the other guy to swing his stick at him or his fist?

There’s too many little hacks and slashes throughout a game of hockey to call
All of them. And that builds up. There’s millions of dollars and years of fame and glory on the line. These are high stakes hockey games.

“Just don’t do it”, “wait for the ref to make a call” - okay. Easy to say when you’re not getting slashed.

And while fights gone wrong are terrible to see, I don’t think even the Burtuzzi incident was more disturbing than Alexander Perezhogin nearly murdering that dude in the goal crease.

Players like it. Fans like it in the right contexts.

Account for it, at the pro level.

Does international hockey, Olympics etc, have sticks?
What about European leagues?
What makes the QMJHL think they can manage these problems now that they've banned fighting but allowed players to keep using their sticks?

What makes North American Pro hockey so much different from every other sport, and every other version of hockey that makes fighting so essential?

[Cheese]

I think we should go back about 30-40 years and ban helmets and allow bench clearing brawls!
A little blood, or a lot of it, and some flying spittle is great fun!!

J/k

[KootenayFlamesFan]

There will still be fights. Just not as many, and you'll probably just see them in extreme cases of protecting teammates or perhaps a bunch near the end of the season when it doesn't matter if you're suspended for a game or two.

But I like this move. Having to fight after clean hits on good players is beyond ridiculous.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Does international hockey, Olympics etc, have sticks?
What about European leagues?
What makes the QMJHL think they can manage these problems now that they've banned fighting but allowed players to keep using their sticks?

What makes North American Pro hockey so much different from every other sport, and every other version of hockey that makes fighting so essential?

International/best-on-best hockey is about representing your country. They’re short tournaments with relatively low stakes (outside the Olympics) and nobody’s getting paid. There’s no salary cap, and there are 7 other teams instead of 31.

Euro league hockey is unwatchable. The ice is too big, the guys aren’t fast enough and you can retreat endlessly.

NHL hockey is played on smaller ice, with bigger, faster players, and there are tens of millions of dollars on the line. There’s no retreating.

The Q and junior leagues can get away with it because the players are slower, smaller, and not being paid. The players as a group don’t have any power, and I have no idea how many of them would even be opposed to this anyway - one less thing for them to worry about.

The NHL players don’t want fighting removed.

The owners don’t want fighting removed.

So it won’t be.

I’m not one of those people who think a game is a waste if there’s not a fight.

But sometimes, some people need to get punched in the mouth.

That’s true in hockey, and it’s true in life.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Does international hockey, Olympics etc, have sticks?
What about European leagues?
What makes the QMJHL think they can manage these problems now that they've banned fighting but allowed players to keep using their sticks?

What makes North American Pro hockey so much different from every other sport, and every other version of hockey that makes fighting so essential?

I think in north american hockey, introduced at junior level, the culture is about intimidation and hitting to hurt. Thus, the stories above about fighting in junior scrimmages. Protecting the defensive zone, 'keep your head up!". In what other sport is a player who got hit blamed for not keeping their head up?

Whereas in international hockey, you're hitting simply to get the puck. Even in football, rugby, the sports you mentioned, those sports are physical but nobody in rugby is hitting to hurt, they're tackling simply to move a scrum or to stop a player from advancing. Even just lifting a guy off his feet is a red card.

[Phil Russell]

This is probably the beginning of the end for fighting in the NHL. It may still take some time to trickle up to the pros (baring a fighting-related tragedy which will trigger a ban quickly), but it is coming. And it needs to happen. And after it does, most will look back and ask why it took so long.

[topfiverecords]

It's not complicated. I don't think it needs to be a suspendible offence, just you get tossed from the game (like in football).

Let's be thankful the players sit on a bench and not folding chairs.

[Reggie Dunlop]

The only place where fighting seems to proliferate is at the minor pro levels.... low paid palookas who can ill-afford to get their beans busted.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I think in north american hockey, introduced at junior level, the culture is about intimidation and hitting to hurt. Thus, the stories above about fighting in junior scrimmages. Protecting the defensive zone, 'keep your head up!". In what other sport is a player who got hit blamed for not keeping their head up?

Whereas in international hockey, you're hitting simply to get the puck. Even in football, rugby, the sports you mentioned, those sports are physical but nobody in rugby is hitting to hurt, they're tackling simply to move a scrum or to stop a player from advancing. Even just lifting a guy off his feet is a red card.

The first part: Literally every sport I've ever played.

The second part: Well that's just wrong.

The only argument anyone has given here is that somehow hockey is different.
No, it really isn't.
Lots of sports are fast.
Lots of sports have pests.
Lots of sports have a "Keep your head up" mentality, also known as "Protecting yourself"
Lots of sports have a "punish/hurt the other team mentality" (You honestly think NFL linebackers don't relish a chance to absolutely ear hole a QB? or that no one in a rugby game has ever cleared out a ruck harder than they need to?)

No other sports allow fighting like hockey does (Except lacrosse).
Other hockey leagues seem to do fine without fighting.
So what is the difference here?

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

The first part: Literally every sport I've ever played.

The second part: Well that's just wrong.

The only argument anyone has given here is that somehow hockey is different.
No, it really isn't.
Lots of sports are fast.
Lots of sports have pests.
Lots of sports have a "Keep your head up" mentality, also known as "Protecting yourself"
Lots of sports have a "punish/hurt the other team mentality" (You honestly think NFL linebackers don't relish a chance to absolutely ear hole a QB? or that no one in a rugby game has ever cleared out a ruck harder than they need to?)

No other sports allow fighting like hockey does (Except lacrosse).
Other hockey leagues seem to do fine without fighting.
So what is the difference here?

Well, in point of fact, other leagues don’t “do just fine” without fighting - they’re vastly inferior leagues that don’t generate nearly the revenue or interest the NHL does, for a whole host of reasons. The lack of danger/risk being one of them.

Like Dave Chapelle once said, “you don’t go to the tiger show to watch people be safe with tigers.”

The fighting is part of the fabric of North American hockey. It just is.

Is the sport better or worse if Jarome Iginla is suspended for a playoff game after beating up Matthias Ohlund or Derian Hatcher?

[Patek23]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

If you will stop watching Hockey because they ban fighting then are you actually a hockey fan?
Sounds to me like you might be a fight fan who found the most inefficient way to watch fights.

Ive been a fan since 1995 when I moved to Calgary. Basically began watching hockey in line with the beginning of Iginlas career who is and always will be my favorite player of alltime. He could score and kick your ass. You just dont see that anymore. Over the years ive started to watch less and less hockey. Stopped renewing my season tickets a couple years back and didnt even attend a single game last season for the first time since 1995!

I just dont enjoy the nonstop penalty calls and the direction the NHL is headed where its all focused on skill. Dont get me wrong I enjoy skill, but the draw for hockey for me was always the grit attatched with it. I can honestly say Im probably only hanging on as a fan out of nostalgia at this point and I sincerely mean if fighting were to be outright banned that would be the end for me. Its not the game I fell in love with in the 90s anymore.

[wireframe]

It is so unnerving to see thousands of adults cheering for a bare-knuckle fight between teenagers. What a bizarre part of Canadian culture.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Well, in point of fact, other leagues don’t “do just fine” without fighting - they’re vastly inferior leagues that don’t generate nearly the revenue or interest the NHL does, for a whole host of reasons. The lack of danger/risk being one of them.

Like Dave Chapelle once said, “you don’t go to the tiger show to watch people be safe with tigers.”

The fighting is part of the fabric of North American hockey. It just is.

Is the sport better or worse if Jarome Iginla is suspended for a playoff game after beating up Matthias Ohlund or Derian Hatcher?

This isn't the question, really. It's whether the sport is better or worse if they don't fight at all. Because Jarome totally picked those fights and had a choice which he probably doesn't make if he risks an ejection in a PO game. I notice you didn't include his fight with Andreychuk where he accomplished nothing except for taking himself out of a final game for 5 minutes, where they were behind by a goal or two.

[Bubba17]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

The first part: Literally every sport I've ever played.

The second part: Well that's just wrong.

The only argument anyone has given here is that somehow hockey is different.
No, it really isn't.
Lots of sports are fast.
Lots of sports have pests.
Lots of sports have a "Keep your head up" mentality, also known as "Protecting yourself"
Lots of sports have a "punish/hurt the other team mentality" (You honestly think NFL linebackers don't relish a chance to absolutely ear hole a QB? or that no one in a rugby game has ever cleared out a ruck harder than they need to?)

No other sports allow fighting like hockey does (Except lacrosse).
Other hockey leagues seem to do fine without fighting.
So what is the difference here?

The NHLPA needs to agree to remove it, or change any rule, and have continually voted against it. This isn't just a league thing, this is a player thing.

[bdubbs]

As expected, the fighting supporters only line of reasoning is "because it has been this way forever, and that's how I grew up watching the game".

Not a good enough reason in my mind with what we know about CTE and how many players have become addicted to drugs and have mental health crises after their careers.