[Trade] Erik Karlsson to Penguins

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by madmike

This is the issue for the Pens with me. Their core guys are all 33+ now. The odds of them all being healthy, energetic and ready to go on a long playoff run aren't high. But again they are committed to trying so this move makes sense.

In the long run, giving up futures doesn't matter to them because they're going to be in a serious rebuild for a while either way.

I don't mind the move for them but yeah, Crosby just turned 36 and Malkin is 37. Adding another injury prone player in Karlsson is asking a lot to go right for them to make a run in the playoffs. Not impossible but the stars will have to align for them.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by dino7c

lol this guy

comparing best years vs. worst

Karlsson has been over 82 points ONE time in his career and was -26 in that year

"100 point dman"

He got 100 points because his team played river hockey and would rather lose than win

Im no Karlsson apologist as i think he is quite flawed as a Dman and needs others to cover for him, which is an issue.

However,

Karlsson is one of 17 Dmen in the entire history of the NHL to exceed 82 pts in a season and one of only 6 to ever clip the 100 pt barrier. He is an exceptionally talented offensive guy who truly is one of the best to ever play the game in that role.

You are really reaching to try and undersell him here.

He will help the Pens score more nest year, Im just not sure that is where their collective issues lied and therefore not sure he moves the needle for them.

Gaining cap space AND adding EK is a nice piece of work by Dubas though.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Yeah I'm totally advocating for the Flames to trade a first for a 30+ year old dman

100 point dman again lol

He has been over 82 points ONE time in his career

The Penguins are not a good team...I see a lot of back patting here as usual.

Come at me, Pens will have fewer than 95 points

$100 bet smart guy

Some posters think every team in the east is going to be good

Panthers and Pens co-champs lol

Who in the east is out of the playoffs if the Pens are in? What about teams like Buffalo? Pens will be in tough. Can't wait to bump this.

As has been mentioned, there have been 6 seasons =/> 82 pts in the last 25 years. Karlsson has two of them (and is the only one with multiples). He also has the 9th best season in that span with 78 pts.

As for who they beat out...I dunno, maybe any of the teams they beat out 16 of the last 17 years when they made the playoffs? Their run certainly could be 'over', but I'll need to see a corpse before I write the obituary.

[rollie619]

Originally Posted by Locke

Thats the other thing too though, neither does 'slow and steady.'

We're perpetually mediocre.

You never hit a home run if you never swing.

I've just accepted that I cheer for a mediocre hockey team. Obviously the owners feel it's better to try to get in and spin the wheel every year than to rebuild. I'm not saying it's right, but it is what it is. Hopefully with Conroy and Iggy in the fold it changes, but I doubt it.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Im no Karlsson apologist as i think he is quite flawed as a Dman and needs others to cover for him, which is an issue.

However,

Karlsson is one of 17 Dmen in the entire history of the NHL to exceed 82 pts in a season and one of only 6 to ever clip the 100 pt barrier. He is an exceptionally talented offensive guy who truly is one of the best to ever play the game in that role.

You are really reaching to try and undersell him here.

He will help the Pens score more nest year, Im just not sure that is where their collective issues lied and therefore not sure he moves the needle for them.

Gaining cap space AND adding EK is a nice piece of work by Dubas though.

We scored 263 and Pittsburgh scored 262 of both teams score 20 more goals they are easily in the playoffs and so are we.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Islanders Panthers and Bruins are bubble teams.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Im no Karlsson apologist as i think he is quite flawed as a Dman and needs others to cover for him, which is an issue.

However,

Karlsson is one of 17 Dmen in the entire history of the NHL to exceed 82 pts in a season and one of only 6 to ever clip the 100 pt barrier. He is an exceptionally talented offensive guy who truly is one of the best to ever play the game in that role.

You are really reaching to try and undersell him here.

He will help the Pens score more nest year, Im just not sure that is where their collective issues lied and therefore not sure he moves the needle for them.

Gaining cap space AND adding EK is a nice piece of work by Dubas though.

Fine but you guys keep calling him a 100 point dman

He did it ONE time and it was well over his career high

"Gaining cap space and adding EK"

Come on now...they gain it short term and lost a first. That is a little misleading.

If they aren't a contending team how is this a win? Losing a first to miss the playoffs or maybe lose in round one.

[bax]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Fine but you guys keep calling him a 100 point dman

He did it ONE time and it was well over his career high

"Gaining cap space and adding EK"

Come on now...they gain it short term and lost a first. That is a little misleading.

If they aren't a contending team ho is this a win? Losing a first to miss the playoffs or maybe lose in round one.

Gained 3 million in cap space
Acquired the reigning Norris winner

Cost them a 1st and a 2nd

Considering how valuable cap space is these days and the make up of their roster that’s a pretty awesome move by Dubas.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Fine but you guys keep calling him a 100 point dman

He did it ONE time and it was well over his career high

"Gaining cap space and adding EK"

Come on now...they gain it short term and lost a first. That is a little misleading.

If they aren't a contending team how is this a win? Losing a first to miss the playoffs or maybe lose in round one.

They gain the cap space for two years. Plus, in the context of signing old guys to longterm deals, I have been told that with the rising cap 9 million is like 6.5 million in two or three years, so 8.5 million must be like 6 million in two years or three max. Easily movable.

If a team signs an old guy to a longterm contract rather than trade him for a bunch prospects that would include a first round pick it is easily as bad of a move as trading for a Norris Trophy winner.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Betting on Crosby and Malkin is a move I'd make.

The cost was not significant and they gained cap space somehow.

[dino7c]

Time will tell if trading a first for EK will be a good move

Pretty certain I will be right here

[bax]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Time will tell if trading a first for EK will be a good move

Pretty certain I will be right here

I’m not sure which side you are on, but the way I see it that first is inconsequential.

Some prospect drafted between 11th and 32nd overall next summer will have no bearing on the remaining Crosby, Malkin, Letang years.

They are already locked in. Might as well give it your best shot now because everybody knows the down years are coming regardless.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Fine but you guys keep calling him a 100 point dman

He did it ONE time and it was well over his career high

"Gaining cap space and adding EK"

Come on now...they gain it short term and lost a first. That is a little misleading.

If they aren't a contending team how is this a win? Losing a first to miss the playoffs or maybe lose in round one.

Well he scored 101 pts last year, and ya, he's the only guy we can call a 100pt dman in the last 31 years.

But in the case of Karlsson we should definitely forget about the last season and focus on the previous 2 or 3.

Whereas with the Penguins we should definitely focus on the last season and forget about the previous 2 or 3 or 16.

[Paulie Walnuts]

It's actually not as bad as I thought he has 4 years left and Crosby is signed for 2 more years. San Jose basically gave him away for a draft pick that's top 10 protected and a bunch of stuff.

In 2 years the cap will probably have gone up 10 million which is pretty much the contract and they could sign Crosby for 1 more year and buyout EK with 1 year left.

When you have Crosby you pretty much have to go for it.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Fine but you guys keep calling him a 100 point dman

He did it ONE time and it was well over his career high

"Gaining cap space and adding EK"

Come on now...they gain it short term and lost a first. That is a little misleading.

If they aren't a contending team how is this a win? Losing a first to miss the playoffs or maybe lose in round one.

I dont know who "us guys" are, but he did indeed score 100 pts last season.

1 of 6 in the entire 106 year history of the game, so i would suggest he can be labeled as such.

And how is it misleading to say that they gained him and added cap space as well?

That is precisely what happened...lol.

I dont think he will be a difference maker to a great degree as i stated, but the facts to this point are pretty black and white.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I dont know who "us guys" are, but he did indeed score 100 pts last season.

1 of 6 in the entire 106 year history of the game, so i would suggest he can be labeled as such.

And how is it misleading to say that they gained him and added cap space as well?

That is precisely what happened...lol.

I dont think he will be a difference maker to a great degree as i stated, but the facts to this point are pretty black and white.

Look, I think dino is being a little pessimistic, but what he's saying isnt 'wrong.'

The 100+ point season was an outlier as opposed to the rule. Karlsson had a season where San Jose quit before the drop of the first puck, so they just let him go out there and play shinny.

And that has to be acknowledged, it doesnt mean he's terrible or that this is a bad trade (I personally think Dubas slayed this one) but its still...not the norm.

Its like the Oilers signing Nurse. They did it after an 'outlier' season rather than the norm, but Karlsson is also an antique.

Expensive, old and fragile.

[Toonage]

Last year was something else. Heres a guy playing with cadaver parts in his ankle, should be regressing and yet he put up career numbers. Drug test that guy lol.

When asked why he was having this resurgence of sorts I think it was his coach that said its cause he was getting more ice time with Burns gone.

He should get worse with more ice time!

Chalk me up as extremely curious to see how this next season play out for him,.

[CliffFletcher]

Even if Karlsson regresses substantially next season, he’ll still likely be a top-5 weapon on defence in the league. So only Hamilton/Hughes/Dahlin good.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

We scored 263 and Pittsburgh scored 262 of both teams score 20 more goals they are easily in the playoffs and so are we.

Pitt may score 20 more goals next year but will probably give up an extra 40 goals when you have a roaming 4th forward on the ice for 20-22 mins a game.

That may have been the most undeserving Norris in history. Remember when Iginla lost the Hart because we missed the playoffs?

[Oil Stain]

Can't believe how bad San Jose got bent over on this deal.

They took on Hoffman, Granlund and Rutta. All cap dumps.
They gave up by far the best player. They cleared cap in 3 years.......but for the next two Rutta, Granlund and the retained on Karlsson will cost them $9.25 million against the cap. Not exactly clearing major space.

Montreal somehow got the second best player in the deal in Petry and a 2nd round pick. I bet the Canadiens will fetch more in trade for him than what the Sharks get for the 3 bozos they acquired.

So the Sharks basically ended up with a late first. What's the point? It's not like they will be good again in that time frame. They don't have one good under 25 year old player on their roster.

You would think they would have gotten a couple of more futures at least.

Montreal arguably got a better return for just hanging around.

Not even sure why Montreal had to be a part of this deal to be honest. San Jose should have just taken Granlund, Rutta, Petry, the 1st, the 2nd, and called it a day.